which hangers to go for? - French caving

[JB]

Am going caving in France in October and am starting to think about bolts and hangers and stuff.

The caves are bolted with 8mm spits. Now I'm thinking about the hangers. We're going to need alot of them so I want to get the most suitable ones for this and any subsequent trips.

On the HnH website there's 3 options:

http://w01-0504.web.dircon.net/acatalog/Main_Menu_Hangers_327.html

Petzl Twist

- I've got some of these and I like them. Easy to use and light.

Petzl Bent Hanger

- same weight as Twist
- I've been told recently that these require a krab rather than a maillon to reduce the flexion of the hanger under load. Was hoping to rig mainly with maillons. However, they do hold the krab at right angles to the rock face so holding the rope away from the rock better than the more-popular Twist hanger.
- only used them a couple of times. Are there any other advantages/disadvantages?

Camp Ring Hanger

- expensive
- heavy
- are there any situations where having some of these would be advantageous? the only advantage I can see is that you can screw them in without a spanner but that's not important cos I'm planning on keeping hold of the spanner.

I'd be interested to know what sort you use when you're using a lot of them. I know that ultimately whichever type I go for isn't going to affect the success of the trip massively but would be interested if you have any strong opinions.

Cheers,
Jules.

 

[SamT]

When we went to the berger last year there seemed to be a real mix (I guess with that many to get - its a case of cadge what you can.

but I'd go for a ratio of 2/3 petzl twist, 1/3 Camp ring.

possibly some clowns for deviations ??

Where are you off ??

 

[George North]

I generally take a mixture of twists and rings with me down Yorkshire's finest non p-hangered 'oles. The main advantage of ring hangers is that you don't need maillons/krabs to attach them to the rope which evens out the differences in both weight and cost compared to a twist/maillon combo. They're also fairly essential if the bolt is being loaded outwards (e.g. if the bolts are planted in the roof). A twist hanger would obviously put a lot of leverage on the bolt in this situation.

They are a bit pricey though.

Apologies if I'm stating the bleeding obvious!

George.

 

[JB]

Ta Sam and George - sounds as though Twist hangers are most common, and yes - some rings will be accompanying us for tying rope into.

Going to the French Pyrenees from 1st to 8th October. Susan (you know who I mean) has a house near Foix so going to stay there and do some of this:

http://www.explos.org/topoguide/cavites.html

especially...

Gouffre VM 11
Gouffre P7/P20
Gouffre du Bagages

Forecast for tomorrow not looking very good but fingers crossed for some climbing. If not, definitely keen for some caving. I'll do whatever but Winnats Head could be fun. I'll be in Sheffield tomorrow afternoon; give us a ring when you get home and we can decide then.

 

[SamT]

Winnats head was top of the list as it was - so looks like thats decided (unless its an awesome sunny, light breeze to keep the midge off but not too windy type of an evening.)

 

[Cave_Troll]

take some nuts with you as well in case you run into stud anchors.

 

[Fred]

Concur with most that a good selection will be needed.

For what it's worth my 2 penneth:

Ring Hangers - always useful, can be tied directly into (not just at the start of a pitch as you can slide them onto the rope and then use them anywhere).The're use easier to clip with your cowstails, don't have to clip into knot or maillon. However need a good flat surface on the rock to get them flush.

Petzl Bent - definitely need oval krabs, good as they have a small footprint on the rock and don't therefore need as much of a "flat surface" as rings. (However in popular French caves there will be plenty of placement choices, once counted 26 spits at one 'Y' hang)

Petzl Clowns - can be really awkward as you may need to slacken the bolt to adjust the rigging.

The're other options if you want to go really lightweight e.g. the "AS" system (see Marbach's Alpine Caving Techniques) but it always makes me nervous on the main rig - basically it's 5mm spectra/dyneema larksfooted into the knots on the main rope - but excellent for deviations.

Maillons vs Krabs - about the same weight but krabs quicker and easier to use. However krabs 3 times as expensive!

 

[hrock]

i fined krabs if used on piches do up too tite to undo once off the pich can be a bit anoiying.
i think the odd clown is good very usfull to lift the knot just off the wall to redus ware. + these realy do not need maillons at all.
when we were in the vercor there was the odd cave with some Petzl P55 Collinox 10mm Resin Anchors in

oh and if you can find a shop out there petzl stuf is cheper