Whitewell Cave

[bog4053]

The first part of the problem is that the entrance is unstable, the limestone being very porous and friable.  The sides of the depression in which it lies are also slumping in.  Some years ago someone attempted to stabilise things with scaffolding but this now too is unstable.  It is only a matter of time before the entrance is lost.

The second part of the problem may be no more than my paranoia about access.  A couple of years ago the "keeper" spotted a number of us looking at the entrance to Whitewell Pot (he had actually spotted us some time earlier over at Hell Hole and had stayed in the vicinity to catch us).  We were in normal clothes by then and were just looking to see what state the pot was then in.  He obviously didn't want anyone exploring the caves and pointed out the sign which said access wasn't permitted.  He also told us a tale about the police waiting at the entrance in the early hours of the morning to catch some people who were down there.  Finally he challenged us to seek permission from the land agent.  I was therefore a bit surprised to find how easily Bradford (and now Burnley) have got permits but what may be significant is that the land agent has only recently taken over from the old one.  It just seems to me that if it comes to who influences the land agent more - CNCC or the keeper - the keeper will probably win.  However we could pre-empt any keeper opposition by a responsible approach to the land agent offering to make the entrance secure and perhaps even gating it and taking responsibility for controlling access.

 

[Alex]

Long time reader, first time poster...  8)

If you plan on a body for digging at Whitewell or the caves around there let me know, I don’t live too far away from there (Clitheroe, about 10 miles away) and I really want to get into digging (Its exploration aspect, that got me into caving in the first place).

I am in Black Rose (Same club as Dunc) so you can either drop him a line or I can PM you my e-mail if you are interested in another body.

Alex

 

[bog4053]

Alex, yes I'm interested.  I've never met Dunc but have corresponded on our Red Stal project at Wizards so will be in touch via him.

 

[Alex]

Well had a look down Whitewell today with Bog and the blockage was indeed passible through a tight slanting squeeze in the boulder choke following the stream, this then breaks into a small chamber and from there the roof seems to get too low and yet more boulders appear to be wedged in blocking the way possibly they fell there from the collapse just up stream. There could have been a squezze to the right leading away from the stream at the blockage but that again was very akward and had boulders in the way.

 

[cave junky]

Did it look safe to dig?

 

[Alex]

Down stream past the first rock fall did seem safer to dig as there is the roof is solid rock however everything looks jammed in quite tightly it might be hard to shift.

 

[bog4053]

Alex, did you check with Duncan to see if what you were looking at tallied with anything he remembers?  It seems to me that where you crawled through is pretty much where the cave ended until LUSS extended it in 1986 - except that if that is so there is more collapse and the large chamber through the crawl is greatly diminished. The LUSS journal reporting their extension noted the further extension possibilities beyond where they got to.  Does anyone know if LUSS or anyone else did any further work down there?

 

[Alex]

I did check with Dunc, but he dont remeber anything afterall it was only one cave of a few he did that day as well as it being a long time ago.

 

[stevejw]

Went down on 5th Feb with Ally. There are two ways on at the bottom of the sloping passage from the entrance. To the left is a short drop which is tight and tricky to reverse and to the right through a small slot is another similar short drop. There is a distinctive unpleasant smell through both drops which ties in with NC3 description of the section before hodder fodder chamber. Both have unstable stuff above them that need attention on the return. To the right the blocks are smaller and more unstable.

I went as far as possible through both drops and found a similar situation previously mentioned. The way on is clearly visible however it becomes too low. There is clear evidence of a collapse - lots of loose stuff which is freshly marked.

Our trip was disappointing/v short as the intended NC3 conclusion of the cave can't currently be reached.

Just behind the the scar/entrance the stream visibly sinks. NC3 describes Hell Hole (upstream) and, downstream, Whitewell Pot (No Access Sign) and final resurgence just above the pub (see below). Clear potential for a link but digging may require permission as all are on the Duchy of Lancaster Estate and as previously mentioned Whitwell Cave looks ready for another collapse in the not too distant future.

Steve

P.S. only go to the pub down the hill if you can drink the excellent beer whilst remaining oblivious to your surroundings - pretentious wine bar with pretentious customers.

 

[Pitlamp]

Is that the Whitewell Inn you're on about? They used to serve a mean Cumberland sausage at one time in the past.

When the Valley Caving Club did major projects both at Hell Hole and Whitewell Resurgence in the early 80s ( I think) they managed to sort out proper access as I remember. I'd have thought going straight to the landowner rather than trying to negociate with a gamekeeper would be the obvious course of action. Landowners have all sorts of responsibilities these days so go armed with a proper story (and any permissions such as those needed from Natural England already sorted) and in many cases you get what you want.) If you can find someone like Mike Smithson from the VCC they can probably give you loads of advice. I think some of their work was written up in issues of Descent at the time and may give you some pointers re access. A glance through a Descent index might be time well spent?

(At this point I'd better apologise in case I've got the wrong end of the stick; I've only briefly glanced through this thread - the above remarks are just intended to help.)

 

[langcliffe]

Went down on 5th Feb with Ally. There are two ways on at the bottom of the sloping passage from the entrance. To the left is a short drop which is tight and tricky to reverse and to the right through a small slot is another similar short drop. There is a distinctive unpleasant smell through both drops which ties in with NC3 description of the section before hodder fodder chamber. Both have unstable stuff above them that need attention on the return. To the right the blocks are smaller and more unstable.

If you want to get your bearings, CaveMapper has put the LUSS survey on the web:

http://cavemaps.org/surveys/luss/full/LUSS%204%20Whitewell%20Cave.png

 

[stevejw]

Thanks 4 survey. Agent was happy to provide a permit so good relationship currently is in place. The "inn" mentioned previously is the place of post caving disappointment.  :thumbsdown:

 

[stevejw]

Any news post post this months descent article?