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You know your old when

kay

kay

Well-known member
I accept that language evolves, and I'm eventually going to have to accept the greengrocers' apostrophe. But I still hate a lot of the modernisms, like emphasising words like 'to', 'by' in spoken speech, rail announcers' insistance that trains arrive 'into' stations, young people reporting conversations 'and I'm like ... and she's like...'

But I can't argue against the view that it's OK if it can be understood.

Sid Weighells Dog said:
As for standardisation - try this (courtesy of GB Shaw I think) what is this word and why: GHOTI?
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GH as in cough, O as in women, TI as in Instruction = fish?
 
AndyF

AndyF

New member
Sid Weighells Dog said:
..

The great green dragon will continue to be correct and adjectives will continue to precede their nouns. ....
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Still don't get it , green and great are both adjectives, WHY does one have to come before the other....  it's no good just saying it continues to be correct!

In the magic kingdom lived two great dragons one red, the other green. The red great dragon could breath fire, the green great dragon could fly.
 
S

Sid Weighells Dog

Member
Kay, you're the first person in thirty years who's got the GHOTI thing straight off  :bow: 

AndyF, sorry I wasn't clear: I meant that the GG dragon was correct in that the adjectives precede the noun, I've no idea why one should come before the other. It does sound better that way round, though
:confused:
 
gus horsley

gus horsley

New member
I hereby relinquish my brief but completely ineffectual stint as forum pendant due to not having a clue what anyone's talking about any more....

I know I'm old because I can remember playing bar billiards in the Golden Lion at Horton-in-Ribblesdale.
 
R

racingsnake

New member
AndyF said:
Sid Weighells Dog said:
Obviously, if there were also a great blue dragon, then the GB dragon would be much larger than the GG dragon...

I'll get me coat.
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;) ;)
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Good job you have the GB dragon then or your guide book would only be three pages long instead of four. ;)
 
A

andymorgan

Guest
Peter Burgess said:
BTW, it's "times when", not "times where"  ;)
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I knew I would make a mistake, when writing about grammar. It goes to show that even perfect people make mistakes when in a hurry  :ang::-[. Also, always remember Peter that you claimed to be the forum pendant, before several people pointed out that it was pedant.

Peter Burgess said:
a) because it's fashionable
b) because you are lazy
c) because you know it annoys old people.
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It was probably lazyness that led to the loss of articles in the English language, and the reason why nouns aren't capitalised anymore.

I would also suggest that is the uneducated who don't have a wide knowledge of the English language who believe it is should be set in stone. I recently read Treasure Island and although it is only 150 years old there were subtle differences in grammar usage. For example,

"what are you doing" said I

would more usually be written now as

"what are you doing" I said

Finally does anybody understand this?

Hē cwæð þæt hē būde on þǣm lande norþweardum wiþ þā Westsǣ

It is English, albeit ~1200 years old.
 
AndyF

AndyF

New member
The green great dragon problem is explored thoroughly in:

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~champoll/adjective-ordering.pdf

Get a beer, read and...errr....enjoy!

At the end of this paper, you will reach one startling conclusion - the academics have absolutely no idea why it's "wrong" either.....
 
mrodoc

mrodoc

Well-known member
I think Duncan is right. I read an interesting book by Bill Bryson on the English language and it is clear that a number of Americanisms are Elizabethanisms retained over the water and over the years.  I was also surprised to learn that Shakespeare invented large numbers of words. Our modern playwrights don't seem to be quite as daring although the language is constantly being enriched in other ways from 'youthspeak' to techno jargon. You cannot stop the change of language or fashion. Anyway it gives us a chance to do the 'When I was young ......." without which no culture would be complete.
 
P

Peter Burgess

New member
mrodoc said:
I think Duncan is right. I read an interesting book by Bill Bryson on the English language and it is clear that a number of Americanisms are Elizabethanisms retained over the water and over the years.  I was also surprised to learn that Shakespeare invented large numbers of words. Our modern playwrights don't seem to be quite as daring although the language is constantly being enriched in other ways from 'youthspeak' to techno jargon. You cannot stop the change of language or fashion. Anyway it gives us a chance to do the 'When I was young ......." without which no culture would be complete.
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Shakespeare invented some words to get round the taboo at the time on using blasphemous phrases.  "Zounds" = "God's Wounds!"
 
AndyF

AndyF

New member
Peter Burgess said:
Shakespeare invented some words to get round the taboo at the time on using blasphemous phrases.  "Zounds" = "God's Wounds!"
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He should have got a job with Tony Blair.....  PC speak, Elizabethan style.

At least you only get detained for 90 days now without trial, bit better than having your head cut off.....
 
B

Bob G

New member
andymorgan said:
I would also suggest that is the uneducated who don't have a wide knowledge of the English language who believe it is should be set in stone. I recently read Treasure Island and although it is only 150 years old there were subtle differences in grammar usage. For example,

"what are you doing" said I

would more usually be written now as

"what are you doing" I said
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This is more conventional:  "What are you doing?" I said.
 
kay

kay

Well-known member
Sid Weighells Dog said:
Kay, you're the first person in thirty years who's got the GHOTI thing straight off  :bow: 

:confused:
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I think I saw it once before (1), about 30 years ago. Completely forgotten it, but it did give me a head start in what I was looking for.

There are lots of words which give you the f and the sh, but is there any word other than women where o is pronouced as i?

(1) you have no idea just how great the temptation was to keep quiet and bask in undeserved glory  ;)
 
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