Your Club's Website

[Peter Burgess]

You are welcome to review our club website, maintained by myself. Constructive critisism is always helpful.
www.issa.org.uk.
(oh what have I let myself in to?!)

I really like this one. I have looked at it before, and it made me think what it would be like to be a member. It gives a perfect impression of a really good group of people with a common interest who just enjoy what they do. The membership application form is right up front, and the imagery on the site is great. Apart from poems, the written word seems not to feature highly in the scope of interests. I really like reading written impressions of caves in prose form. Not a blow by blow account of what passage goes where, but a thoughtful expression of how a cave was perceived by the writer.

 

[Smithers]

Does anyone know where I can get some good, clean templates for a club websit, with easy to update photo galleries etc?  I'm currently the Webmaster for the University of Newcastle Caving Club, and its just such a pain in the arse to update the website.  This is mainly because we have to do it through the University, but there has to be some way of doing things simply, easily and quickly, rather than having to update every single pange wit the correct links if you add or remove categories to the contents list.

Cheers,

Smithers

 

[Peter Burgess]

Does anyone know where I can get some good, clean templates for a club websit, with easy to update photo galleries etc?  I'm currently the Webmaster for the University of Newcastle Caving Club, and its just such a pain in the arse to update the website.  This is mainly because we have to do it through the University, but there has to be some way of doing things simply, easily and quickly, rather than having to update every single pange wit the correct links if you add or remove categories to the contents list.

Cheers,

Smithers

Start another thread?

 

[Rhian]

Thanks Peter. I think that Ian Ellis Chandler's page has the only poem at the moment but we have many members who do this kind of thing. We published a book of poems not so long ago actually. Great idea, thank you.

 

[darkplaces]

Axbridge Caving Group
http://www.axbridgecavinggroup.org/

A brief look (no time for much more at the mo)

Public focussed, basic key information there.

I suspect I would need to poke about a lot more to see if I could decide if it was the club for me.

I asked myself these two questions.

"How do I join?"

The answer didn't leap out of the page. But I guess the only way is to email the chairman for more details.

"I want to visit Shute Shelve Cavern" - likewise, not much info (I found a few pictures quite quickly). No immediately obvious details on the cave like when I could arrange a visit, what party limitations etc. Answer? I'll have to email the chairman and wait for a reply.

Impression - I hope you can find time to work on it - It's a bit skeletal at the moment.

Note: I was not commenting on the look and feel of the site, but on what information I could glean from it, and how useful the site is. You can use 'sticks in mud' for the purposes of this exercise, for all I care.

I have made a few changed to the home page to answer what seams the 1st common questions.

These days creating a static website, directly editing html/php etc seams pass?e I would recommend using a form of WIKI that you can edit the template (applied to all pages) to look like a normal website, allows for much easier editing on the fly, with built in ability to upload or present files for download and an online gallery. However the totally dynamic part of these websites are being filled in by places such as uk caving, the forums! The Forums are the single  biggest change in channeling the communications between each other and jo public. SO the ACG website remains fairly static, has downloads of things that update from time to time but the majority of the action is done via the forum. 

I like this topic its usefull.

 

[Peter Burgess]

How about something on the home page - "if you cannot find what you are looking for here and want to ask us a specific question, visit our forum on UKCaving.com, or contact us by email : info [at] anyoldcavingclub.org"

 

[Peter Burgess]

I just downloaded the Axbridge Caving Group handbook, lots of information, but still not what I was looking for. I thought there might be an application form in the back. BTW, I will not be applying to join every group whose website I check out! (you will all be pleased to here).

The home page is better now ! Feedback works, folks!

 

[Peter Burgess]

http://www.axbridgecavinggroup.org/locations/redcliffee_caves/index.shtml

The Redcliffe Caves open days are three years out of date.

 

[darkplaces]

http://www.axbridgecavinggroup.org/locations/redcliffee_caves/index.shtml

The Redcliffe Caves open days are three years out of date.

err.. them be records of the event......  :doubt:

 

[Peter Burgess]

http://www.axbridgecavinggroup.org/locations/redcliffee_caves/doors_openday_22_july_2005.shtml

"Along with the Bristol Harbour the ACG will be holding a Redcliffe Caves Openday from the 22nd to the 24th July 2005. " is what I read.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Perhaps we shouldn't dwell on the details too much? There are pages about Redcliffe, and a means of making contact for further details, which is good.

 

[Dep]

It is a good idea in theory, but I imagine people would be uncomfortable to put forward their club's website unless they are the webmaster. Volunteers usually make the websites in their own time, and are not usually professionals: so it is a bit unfair to criticise them.

Maybe instead, people could look at club websites and give examples of ones we think are good, and why.

I agree totally. And professional web-programers or otherwise they are invariable unpaid.

Review of any site should be at the request of its webmaster and no other, especially if people expect these comments to be acted on.

If somone presented me with a list of changes purely for the sake of change with no great adavantage one way or the other I would present them with an estimate for my time, and after the work is done; a bill.

As is often the case with open-season opinions the end result is usually a mish-mash of ideas and different view-points -  but rarely a consensus.

Few if any will be aware of the real constraints or aims faced by the webmaster who produced a site.

Some will say a site is too colourful, some too dull.
Some will say it has too much info, some not enough.
Some will say it's too wordy, some not enough.

It's not possible to please everyone, something I realised a long time ago and long since ceased trying to do.

Unless it was reporting a specific fault (which would be fixed immediately with thanks) I am unlikely to be that interested in the opinions of outsiders on a site I had written - unless they were specific functional points.
As long as all the links work and it is understandable then it is (IMO) simply impossible to coherently say how someone should have designed their site unless you are that person and aware of all the factors that they had to take into account.

I do get cross when people complain that they have to look for stuff, whilst at the same time complaining that (eg) the homepage is too 'busy'. It is very hard to strike a balance.

There is no doubt that some sites out there are better than others, but there is no yardstick, and this is so highly subjective it seems pointless to me.

 

[Hughie]

I'm afraid I find club websites generally unimpressive and unimportant.

Probably because my life doesn't revolve around computers and the internet, and also living quite close to a caving area containing the biggest chamber in the UK (ahem!) am not really bothered what non mendip clubs are up to.

If I want to find out about access to any cave, I'll ask someone in the Hunters - someone there is bound to know.

Seriously, though, DP makes some very valid points about forums.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Oh dear, Dep. Are you missing the point? I suspect so. Our own views of our own sites are very subjective. The impression a site gives to others, however, is useful information. And nobody is obliged to act on it.

We want our sites to interest people who visit them. There are things we do that we want others to know about. We like it when someone finds the site, likes what they see, and fills in an application form.

For example, if someone points out that either there is no form to fill in, or they couldn't find it, is that not useful feedback? Why have 'feedback' links if you don't want feedback? I think the opinions of fellow cavers are more useful than feedback from non-cavers in a sense. They have the experience from their own club to bring into the equation.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I'm afraid I find club websites generally unimpressive and unimportant.

Probably because my life doesn't revolve around computers and the internet, and also living quite close to a caving area containing the biggest chamber in the UK (ahem!) am not really bothered what non mendip clubs are up to.

If I want to find out about access to any cave, I'll ask someone in the Hunters - someone there is bound to know.

Seriously, though, DP makes some very valid points about forums.

And there was I thinking 'where can we get some useful feedback on websites? - I know, I'll post up an idea on..... let me see, I know! A website!'

Because people who actively use forums are the sort of folk who (a) have access to a computer, and (b) tend to use the computer more than just posting on forums, with exceptions of course.

 

[graham]

... I like that the Axbridge have the ability to download theyre latest journal as a pdf....I'd like to recieve the wessex/craven journal/record this way as i'm not a hordy book wormy type but do like to read whats been happening...
Would save clubs heaps in postage for those that are like me..... (poor them)

You can download our (UBSS) newsletter from the website, latest one and back issues. You can also download back issues (over five years old) of papers from our Proceedings. Newer ones can be got elsewhere as pdf's, but not free as, for a number of reasons, we still need to produce (and support) paper publications.

 

[cap n chris]

Graham has neatly explained why the UBSS Website is the bestest in the country.

 

[graham]

Graham has neatly explained why the UBSS Website is the bestest in the country.

We are by no means unique in that regard, Chris. SWCC and BEC have both uploaded loads of back issues as well. We are working on improvements all the time, though.

 

[kay]

Peter

You said, in your original post, "Maybe when we have a site to start with, rather than comment on the technical features which would be very geeky, let's just concentrate on how the club comes over - friendly, or specialised, or busy, or a bit armchair? "

Yet pretty well all the comments on this thread have been about presentation of the website itself. Yes, I know things like easily finding out a contact address is part of how likely you are to join a particular club. But excellence of website doesn't necessarily have anything to do with what the club is like. For example, a small friendly club is just as likely to have a rough and ready website as it is to have a sleek professional looking job.

I'd really like to get back to the original question - what impression of the club do you get from the website?

 

[Dep]

Oh dear, Dep. Are you missing the point? I suspect so. Our own views of our own sites are very subjective. The impression a site gives to others, however, is useful information. And nobody is obliged to act on it.

Not at all, I understand what you are trying to achieve but hadn't realised you were going to implement it a) like that and b) so soon.

You are right that our view is subjective, however those of an outsider will be no less so. The difference though is that we will be subjective but informed, whereas an outsider will be subjective and necessarily far less well informed.

We want our sites to interest people who visit them. There are things we do that we want others to know about. We like it when someone finds the site, likes what they see, and fills in an application form.

For example, if someone points out that either there is no form to fill in, or they couldn't find it, is that not useful feedback? Why have 'feedback' links if you don't want feedback? I think the opinions of fellow cavers are more useful than feedback from non-cavers in a sense. They have the experience from their own club to bring into the equation.

But niggly problems like that aren't an issue - I know it all works fine as I have spent a great deal of my unpaid time making it so.

As I said in my last post feedback for specific faults is very welcome, you know yourself how quickly I usually react to such reports and how quickly things get fixed as a matter of pride.

But surely we're talking about content and presentation here not functional website issues - at least that was my understanding when you broached the idea yesterday.

But what I do not wish to invite are a load of miscellaneous opinions from all and sundry.

I don't care if someone doesn't like the layout or colour - I will only take them seriously if they also include specific details of not just what they think is wrong but how they think it should be fixed.

It's very easy to look at another's work and say "I don't like that" - but not anywhere near so easy to sit down and constructively think about how _you_ would have done it and how it can be changed - yet still meet all the original objectives without compromise.

In short I am only willing to accept non-functional/technical feedback from those who are well informed as to the purpose of the pages and all the ins and outs. In practice that just means you and a small handful of our other members.