Author Topic: Cordless Drill Protection  (Read 3763 times)

Offline Speleokitty

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Cordless Drill Protection
« on: February 09, 2013, 10:41:40 am »
I need to get a cordless drill and a couple of spare batteries through a short sump about 4m long and 1.5m deep. Any suggestions for a suitable container?

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 01:44:59 pm »
I've taken my camera through a lot of water and nasty bumpy crawls in just a new Ortleib drybag within a Beast kitbag with no problems so I'm sure a drill would be fine - just make sure there's plenty of air trapped in the dry bag if it needs protection/flotation, or none at all if you want it to sink! I only say new, as I've found they tend to get holed quite easily caving, but a dab of AquaSure soon sorts that out.

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 04:21:25 pm »
This is our drill box. They are built like Peli cases but a whole lot cheaper. Our " engineer " has found a supply on the internet I think they are about £30. They are waterproof but I dont know about pressure rating.Ideal for long use underground where the drill can be stored and just the batteries taken out. Will see if I can find the link.


Offline jarvist

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 06:20:08 pm »
1.5m deep is OK for a Daren drum I believe (~10m for a Pelicase and slightly more for an Otterbox is also something I've heard quoted).

The Bosch Uneo fits in a Daren with a very gentle bit of persuasion, it's more or less neutrally buoyant once you shove a few spare batteries + bolts in there too.

Offline Speleokitty

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 06:45:06 pm »
At around £30 that looks very interesting altermative to a Peli case even if it won't get through the sump. I could test it out by taking it through the sump empty first. It would be really helpful if you could pass on details of the source.

Unfotunately my drill is too big for a normal Darren Drum.

Thanks

Julie


Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 06:48:29 pm »
I've used a Darren drum through Far Sump on many occasions, which never leaked (although the drum did end up slightly crinkly where it deformed. From memory the maximum depth is 8 m there.

However, half a wagon inner tube with the ends double folded over and secured by snoopies will accommodate even large drills and is incredibly waterproof. Padding on the outside is useful to stop the drill's weight puncturing the tube if it's got any sharp corners.

Offline exsumper

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2013, 08:46:55 pm »
Agree with Pitlamp about folded inner tubes/Carbide pigs. Used them on many occasions when diving to Chamber 22 in Wookey Hole Cave. Was extremely surprised to find that they remained dry to at least -22m depth. Although Iwould say that a thinner wall thickness made for an easier seal. 

With regard to Daren Drums. There is a dive report in the Somerset sump index of an attempt to take a Daren Drum through to Chamber 20. It imploded at -10m apparently.
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Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2013, 08:52:33 pm »
Reply from our engineer re the big cases.

 The boxes are Duratool waterproof tool boxes, they are available from lots of places but we got ours from CPC a branch of Farnell electronics. Unfortunately it looks as if they have realized how cheap they were selling them, that said they still seem to cheaper than most.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 10:05:16 pm »
Agree with Pitlamp about folded inner tubes/Carbide pigs. Used them on many occasions when diving to Chamber 22 in Wookey Hole Cave. Was extremely surprised to find that they remained dry to at least -22m depth. Although Iwould say that a thinner wall thickness made for an easier seal. 

With regard to Daren Drums. There is a dive report in the Somerset sump index of an attempt to take a Daren Drum through to Chamber 20. It imploded at -10m apparently.

Yes - that figure of about -10 m sticks in my mind too. Before these red lidded white plastic pots were popularised by the Daren campers they were in very common use in France. (We used import them to England and to refer to them as "French pots" as a result.) I have seen French cave divers insert bicycle tyre valves into the lids and pressurise them using a bicycle pump. This stops them collapsing until much deeper (at least -20 m). I don't know what their burst pressure is so perhaps I'd better say "Don't try this at home folks!".

Offline owd git

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 10:29:35 pm »
Julie, look at 'Fat boys' next to the sports shop on Dale Rd. Matlock they have blue drums hung outside. will check price if you want, Ric'.
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Offline jarvist

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2013, 12:12:34 am »
With regard to Daren Drums. There is a dive report in the Somerset sump index of an attempt to take a Daren Drum through to Chamber 20. It imploded at -10m apparently.

I suspect the current generation Daren drum (branded Curtec, with a coarse thread for the lid) will probably fail at a lesser depth. The plastic used for the lid seems much more brittle (thinner HDPE versus LDPE?), I've managed to crack a couple just dropping things on them in stores.
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Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2013, 01:01:15 pm »
Thinking about the original question - would a dry bag do for such a short shallow immersion? Especially if the items were further protected inside by plastic bags?

In the days before Far Sump got its bypass I've taken many items through (to -8 m) just protected by poly bags. I used bags which were far longer than the item in question; once the item is in the bag you spin the top of the bag round a few times then invert the excess back over the package - and do it a 3rd time if the bag's long enough. Any excess is secured with snoopy loops or even elastic bands. Then the finished package is put into another plastic bag and the process repeated. As long as the bags are waterproof to start with - and care is taken not to nip the bags with any sharp edges on the contents - I reckon it'll be right.

If you have an engineer on board you might investigate the possibility of making a dry tube from a suitable length of plastic pipe with end caps turned to hold O rings. If you use PVC then one end can be solvent welded on anyway, only leaving the other end as a lid. Three small over-centre clips will secure the lid effectively. The resulting package will be very buoyant - this can be overcome by transporting the dry tube underwater in a tackle bag filled with rocks. Or for better control, ratchet strap lead weights to the outside of the dry tube, which will be more manageable underwater, especially if free diving. It's probably better not to put lead weights inside the tube as they have a habit of damaging the items already in the tube.

We have also used neoprene dry bags in the past for transporting drills through sumps - made with a short drysuit zip. Northern Diver kindly made us some at a very special price for an expedition once. If you ordered a one off though it's probably be quite expensive. However, ordinary neoprene is also less durable than the inner tube suggested above.

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2013, 07:58:04 pm »
More on the rigid box.


 Web site is http://cpc.farnell.com/ .

They now do 3 sizes
Small with foam SG3318902

Med without foam SG3290002 (this is the size we had last time)

Large without foam SG3290102


Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2013, 09:15:45 am »
In the unlikely event that you do make a dry tube - on reflection, over-centre clips are best used in even numbers (i.e. four would be better than three).

Online SamT

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2013, 09:33:39 am »

I've a feeling Jim Lister had some issues with peli cases leaking in ink sump, Whilst mega tough, I dont think the rectangular shape is particularly good under pressure, same with darren drums, as if they kink under pressure, the seal at the top can soon part enough to allow ingress of water.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2013, 04:03:16 pm »
Ink Sump gets down to -14 m at one point. You're right about shape being important; mind you it's possible to bodge some bulkheads to give support.

Regarding Daren drums / French pots, we once had one stored down at the Lancaster Hole main sump, attached to a bolt in the wall. There was a flood and high water marks suggested the sump had backed up by some 30 m (right up into the Fall Pot chamber). The drum had been completely crushed by the 4 bars pressure during the flood - there was the imprint of the contents pressed into the walls from the inside! However, the contents were still dry. We'd anticipated that a flood might happen so any spare room inside the drum had been tightly stuffed with rags (effectively a soft "bulkhead"). It worked!

Sam has a good point here - if you can stop the sealing surfaces deforming then many containers will not leak, even if the walls end up a funny shape afterwards.

Offline JohnMCooper

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Re: Cordless Drill Protection
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2013, 08:31:21 pm »
Quote
More on the rigid box.


 Web site is http://cpc.farnell.com/ .

They now do 3 sizes
Small with foam SG3318902

Med without foam SG3290002 (this is the size we had last time)

Large without foam SG3290102


Although the web site says the larger two don't have foam mine did. The largest size also has side catches to latch (but you shouldn't need that size!).