Author Topic: Deepest caves in the Peak  (Read 11019 times)

Offline Moose

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2014, 08:56:49 pm »
Cave science Volume 18 number 1, page 44.

This dye trace was done in 1988 from Winnats Head to Whirlpool rising in <216 hours

As far as I know, no recent work has been done.

Offline Wardy

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2014, 10:04:24 pm »
Just curious as that dye trace is not likely to be very accurate
From memory this was done at a time when main rising wasn't flowing and whirlpool was, so that may affect things.
The biggest problem was that the guys who put the dye in were after a sneak preview of the latest discovery, but did not as it turned out go that far. They thought there was only one stream and so put the dye in the water running through the final squeeze in the choke.
That means the result is from water running into the big static (?) sump pool and then through the sewer until it disappears into the boulder below the aven.
Despite very careful checking in low water conditions I never saw this come back into the main downstream pitch route.
This means the main stream in the new extensions has never been tested
No test has been done to see if the original WHC stream rejoins the downstream pitch route
And finally none of them has been tested with main rising flowing
Anyone fancy a dye tracing project?

Offline Dickie

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2014, 03:56:51 am »
What about the short streamway off the first chamber? Has that been tested?
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Offline Moose

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2014, 07:47:20 am »
It certainly sounds more complicated than first apparent. My suggestion is to contact John Gunn (if you haven't already) and he'll be able to furnish you with the information re precise injection points etc.

Personally I don't think t would make much difference where in the cave you placed the dye, it would combine and all eventually end up entering Speedwell via one of the main inputs. Very unlikely that one stream in WH would go to MR and then another in close proximity going to WR.

When you say MR 'wasn't flowing' I have never known this to be the case. Yes the flow switches but even when it's switched to WR there's still a certain amount of flow issuing from MR.

Ultimately you're right, there needs to be more research done on this if you (or anyone else can find the time and energy) I am always happier with dye traces when they've been repeated at least once.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2014, 07:57:13 am »
Moose makes a good point; replication is the best way to work towards certainty.

Just one comment on the flow switching, in case it helps. Main Rising always flows (as Moose says) but when the main allogenic flow (i.e. sinking streams) comes from Whirlpool Rising the water emerging from Main Rising is essentially autogenic (what cavers refer to as "percolation water"). The same applies when the swallet streams are coming from Main Rising - Whirlpool Rising carries essentially autogenic flow.

This is important if you happen to be a sump flopper like me because the autogenic water is what gives the really good visibility.

Anyway, never mind all that. The real prize is Cliffhanger Sump - a big undertaking but potential is very juicy.

Offline Wardy

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2014, 09:46:08 pm »
Like Moose says it would be unlikely that the two streams in WHC I referred to go to different spots, but it is interesting that the largest one and the one last seen at the lowest point has never been tested. Whereas the smaller one was tested, but near the point it is last seen which is approximately 250 foot higher. All this could affect the flow times.
I take the point that the MR flow never fully stops, but it would be interesting to see where things come out when flows are "normal"
the whole area is really interesting any chance of a link to the latest survey to of the system with WHC on as well as Cliff caver obviously?





Offline Rob

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2014, 09:52:01 pm »
...any chance of a link to the latest survey to of the system with WHC on as well as Cliff caver obviously?
http://www.peakdistrictcaving.info/caves-of-castleton-survex-project.htm
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Offline Rob

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2014, 09:40:22 am »
Update as of yesterday:

1.    268m Peak Speedwell
2.    211m Giants/Oxlow/Maskhill*
3.    180m Nettle Pot
4.    179m Rowter Hole*
5.    145m Winnats Head
6.    125m Waterways Swallet
7.    97m Robins Shaft*
8.    90m Blue John Cavern
9.    82m Eldon Hole
10.   76m Hungerhill Swallet
11.   70m P8 Jackpot
12.   70m Christmas Swallet
13.   64m Bagshaw Cavern*
14.   61m Carlswark/Merlin*
15.   56m Eyam Dale House Cave*
16.   55m Lathkill Head Cave
17.   53m Darfar Pot

Luckily the Badgers can easily progress a couple more vertical meters so shouldn't be long before Rowter overtakes Nettle. Although Nettle hasn't been surveyed for a long time, and then the line tot he bottom involved 4 different parties, so I don't trust that 180m value...
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Offline Moose

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2014, 04:05:53 pm »
Now you've developed the extra large evening trip, you could always re survey it and then we'd all know.....

Offline Rob

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2014, 10:12:45 pm »
Hmm, I think I need to learn to sleep faster before making that a regular thing....  :blink:
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Offline Roo

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2014, 03:18:30 pm »
Water Icicle needs to be on the list too. 32m entrance shaft, 21m surveyed depth of Elevator pitch before digging, and an extremely conservative estimate of 8m depth of current dig giving a grand total of 62m. Digging progresses, if a touch sporadically!

Offline Rob

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2014, 05:16:05 pm »
Of course, please accept my apologies. Don't know why my mind rarely accesses WIC when I list caves....

Looking at the survex file, the top of the Elevator pitch is at 37m depth, putting the bottom at 58m. Does that mean that the ~8m of digging off the bottom makes it 66m?
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Offline Roo

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2014, 06:44:48 pm »
 :lol: :lol: :lol:

I didn't realise there was that much elevation change (5m) between the bottom of the shaft and top of Elevator. If that's correct, then ~66m it is.

Offline Duncan Price

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2014, 09:33:57 am »
16.   55m Lathkill Head Cave

17.   54m Ilam Main Rising
18.   53m Darfar Pot

 :coffee:

Offline Rob

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2014, 11:27:45 am »
Update:

1.    268m Peak Speedwell
2.    211m Giants/Oxlow/Maskhill*
3.    182m Rowter Hole*
4.    180m Nettle Pot
5.    145m Winnats Head
6.    125m Waterways Swallet
7.    97m Robins Shaft*
8.    90m Blue John Cavern
9.    82m Eldon Hole
10.   76m Hungerhill Swallet
11.   70m P8 Jackpot
12.   70m Christmas Swallet
13.   66m Water Icicle Cavern*
14.   64m Bagshaw Cavern*
15.   61m Carlswark/Merlin*
16.   56m Eyam Dale House Cave*
17.   55m Lathkill Head Cave
18.   54m Ilam Main Rising
19.   53m Darfar Pot
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Offline Rob

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2015, 09:04:19 am »
Survey trip last night demoted Nettle to 174m total depth, making Rowter a clear 3rd.
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Offline bograt

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2015, 09:47:34 am »
Suspect Eldon might be edging up the ratings?
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Offline 2xw

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2015, 08:02:42 pm »
I can't wait for Eldon to be number 5

Offline SJB

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2015, 02:16:00 pm »
For the sake of  completeness is there a no 20?

WICC by the way is 65/65m deep, will process survey data soon and give a measured actual.

Offline Rob

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2015, 03:00:14 pm »
I can't wait for Eldon to be number 5
Especially if it's due to the current top 5 all connecting!

For the sake of  completeness is there a no 20
I just picked all more than 50m deep....
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Offline bograt

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2015, 06:40:20 pm »
I can't wait for Eldon to be number 5
Especially if it's due to the current top 5 all connecting!

[

Hmm, could be a while before no.6 comes into it! :)
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Offline Rob

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2020, 03:33:31 pm »
Another quick update. Not many changes over the last 5 years....

1.    268m Peak Speedwell
2.    211m Giants/Oxlow/Maskhill*
3.    182m Rowter Hole*
4.    180m Nettle Pot
5.    145m Winnats Head
6.    125m Waterways Swallet
7.    97m Robins Shaft*
8.    90m Blue John Cavern
9.    80m Eldon Hole
10.   76m Hungerhill Swallet
11.   70m P8 Jackpot
12.   70m Christmas Swallet
13.   66m Water Icicle Cavern*
14.   65m Cussey Pot
15.   64m Bagshaw Cavern*
16.   61m Carlswark/Merlin*
17.   56m Eyam Dale House Cave*
18.   55m Lathkill Head Cave
19.   54m Ilam Main Rising
20.   53m Darfar Pot
The end is where we start....

Offline JoshW

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2020, 03:37:33 pm »
not been a good 5 years for Eldon though? how's it got 2 metres shallower?

Offline 2xw

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2020, 03:44:21 pm »
not been a good 5 years for Eldon though? how's it got 2 metres shallower?

I heard its had a load of scaffold thrown in it

Offline mikem

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Re: Deepest caves in the Peak
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2020, 04:05:36 pm »
Either that or you've worn the top down by too many visits (or just a more accurate survey)...

 

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