Author Topic: CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?  (Read 11404 times)

Offline NewStuff

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Re: CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2014, 07:27:08 pm »
I'm pretty sure I can get all the information needed for this research in the Peak District, how about other areas?

In this necl of the woods, I'll suspect you run into a lot of stalling and bullshit. I doubt the club(s) in question want to be "outed" for the restrictive policies put in place for no valid conservation reasoning.
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Offline bograt

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Re: CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2014, 07:38:03 pm »
I'm pretty sure I can get all the information needed for this research in the Peak District, how about other areas?

In this necl of the woods, I'll suspect you run into a lot of stalling and bullshit. I doubt the club(s) in question want to be "outed" for the restrictive policies put in place for no valid conservation reasoning.

Conservation is not the only reason for access control.

 I suspect (from previous posts) that we are considering North Wales here, do you think this comes within the remit of the CCC, or is there a case to set up another regional council?
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Offline Peter Burgess

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Re: CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2014, 07:46:59 pm »
I would be more than happy to provide the rationale for management in place for the various sites WCMS look after. They are not on access land. They are not caves. So if anybody really needs to know contact me personally please.

Offline NewStuff

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Re: CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2014, 11:38:05 pm »
I'm pretty sure I can get all the information needed for this research in the Peak District, how about other areas?

In this necl of the woods, I'll suspect you run into a lot of stalling and bullshit. I doubt the club(s) in question want to be "outed" for the restrictive policies put in place for no valid conservation reasoning.

Conservation is not the only reason for access control.

 I suspect (from previous posts) that we are considering North Wales here, do you think this comes within the remit of the CCC, or is there a case to set up another regional council?

N.Wales is indeed correct, and not just a small part of it, this is widespread and endemic. I'm not sure if the CCC has the either ability (in terms of being told to fuck off like everyone else has been) or remit, to "enforce" fair play, but I have heard it's being looked into.

I don't think we need yet another council, but I do think some stern words, at a minimum, need to be had, before the current level of lock-chopping gets worse. Before anyone blows a gasket, I'm not advocating the chopping of locks, but it is happening because of a "our hole, join the club or fuck off" attitude in a number of places, to people with plenty of experience and suitable insurance, who are in a club. Diplomacy has been tried a number of times in the past, and has been met with a brick wall. I don't think a few of the places will ever open up without a bitter and intensive lock removal campaign to be honest, but hey, it's worth a try, and I sincerely hop I am proven wrong.

I will decline to name the systems in question, as the incumbents will be all over them like shit on a blanket looking for "new" ways in we may have. If this ever get's sorted out and people play nice, I'll happily show people where things are located. Yes, this cloak and dagger, ninja style bullshit really is required here. It's pathetic, and shows just how broken the current system is.
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Offline bograt

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Re: CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2014, 12:02:51 am »
I can appreciate everything you say, and I suspect most folks 'in the know' will be aware of the systems you allude to.
 Are you sure that the access controlling body would not co-operate with BCA on giving reasons for their control?, failure to do this would put them in a very bad light.

Interfering with local access arrangements is not within the BCA's remit, but with the advent of CRoW, maybe this is due for review??
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Offline NewStuff

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Re: CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2014, 12:10:02 am »
I can appreciate everything you say, and I suspect most folks 'in the know' will be aware of the systems you allude to.
 Are you sure that the access controlling body would not co-operate with BCA on giving reasons for their control?, failure to do this would put them in a very bad light.

Interfering with local access arrangements is not within the BCA's remit, but with the advent of CRoW, maybe this is due for review??

I did doubt the current bodies would be allowed, and in some cases, inclined to, "interfere" with access (or lack of) arrangements. I do think it's daft that a national body cannot bring sanction with actual teeth to them if a club is blatabtly out of line. I'm not one for "more rules", or indeed, anything other than a minimum of them in any case, but this one seems like a no-brainer, after all, there's always going to be one* isn't there?

*one caver/club/body/marsupial/extra-terrestrial/unidentified gelatinous mass, acting like a prick
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Offline bograt

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Re: CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2014, 12:27:36 am »
I can appreciate everything you say, and I suspect most folks 'in the know' will be aware of the systems you allude to.
 Are you sure that the access controlling body would not co-operate with BCA on giving reasons for their control?, failure to do this would put them in a very bad light.

Interfering with local access arrangements is not within the BCA's remit, but with the advent of CRoW, maybe this is due for review??

I did doubt the current bodies would be allowed, and in some cases, inclined to, "interfere" with access (or lack of) arrangements. I do think it's daft that a national body cannot bring sanction with actual teeth to them if a club is blatabtly out of line. I'm not one for "more rules", or indeed, anything other than a minimum of them in any case, but this one seems like a no-brainer, after all, there's always going to be one* isn't there?

*one caver/club/body/marsupial/extra-terrestrial/unidentified gelatinous mass, acting like a prick

Unfortunately the national body doe's not have the 'teeth', but CCC, if you accept their authority, doe's have the ability to influence access issues (dependant, of course upon the inclination of their access officer).

P.S. Didn't realise there were marsupials in Wales? :-\
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Offline NewStuff

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Re: CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2014, 12:33:56 am »
P.S. Didn't realise there were marsupials in Wales? :-\

You see weird things underground... though that could be the funny tasting mushrooms I found growing at an entrance that one time...  :halo: ;)  :yucky:
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Offline bograt

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Re: CROW Setion 26 - Which Caves Need Protection?
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2014, 01:04:33 am »
 :lol: :lol: :lol:, Though I do recall a 4 foot high rabbit which surprised me whilst climbing at the Roaches in the Peak District :o

  OFF TOPIC :furious:
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