Author Topic: Permission for a dig  (Read 3726 times)

Offline ganjaman

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Permission for a dig
« on: October 24, 2018, 12:17:10 am »
hey people I am interested in a few places near castleton where I am thinking about digging do I need permission or should I just crack on? im not looking for treasure just dark tunnels
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 12:23:55 pm by paul, Reason: Updated Title to something more useful »

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2018, 08:00:13 am »
I guess it depends on where you're looking.

Could you give us a vague vicinity as to where you're looking?

eg. up cavedale.
above winnatts pass.
between peak cavern and speedwell.


You get the idea, then we know vaguely where your interested in without giving the game away.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 12:24:14 pm by paul, Reason: Updated Title to something more useful »

Offline SamT

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2018, 09:15:05 am »
Generally, I'd say that most places, you'd probably require permission.

Even if its not official permission as such,  polite enquiries with the local farmer/land owner go a long long way in maintaining future good will and relations.

Its probably in-advisable to just rock up and start digging holes in someones field.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 12:24:29 pm by paul, Reason: Updated Title to something more useful »

Offline nickwilliams

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2018, 11:53:13 am »
Much of the area around Castleton is a SSSI and so you will need permission from Natural England as well as the landowner/occupier.

IME, permission is not hard to get so it would be good if people didn't bugger things up by ignoring the rules.

The DCA publish a guide to digging which is well worth a look:

https://thedca.org.uk/conservation-access/cdsssi

There are lots of people on here who will be williing to provide good help and advice if the OP asks.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 12:24:44 pm by paul, Reason: Updated Title to something more useful »
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Offline AR

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2018, 09:09:10 pm »
Several of the major veins on Castleton Moor are also Scheduled Monuments - that needs a separate permission for digging through Historic England and it's a criminal offence to dig without it.  The best way to find out for England at least is to use the Magic Map (https://magic.defra.gov.uk/MagicMap.aspx) and from the left hand menu, go into  Designations > Land-based designations > Historic Statutory > Scheduled Monuments

Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline ganjaman

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2018, 10:56:29 pm »
nevermind il find somewhere else to dig where it wont be noticed im not a member of any caving clubs and have no insurance so as soon as dca get involved my work will be for nothing and I wont have access thankyou for taking the time to reply you guys were loads more help than the woman on the fone at natural trust has anyone been in new venture while im asking stupid questions ta

Offline badger

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2018, 08:11:18 am »
if its national trust land you would also need permission from them as the land owner

Offline ganjaman

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 08:30:16 am »
after way people are on here I don't need permission I tried doing things the right way after talking with PK on fb a while ago I joined the forum he told me about forgetting to mention the kind of ****s that congregate here anyways this is the reason I wont join a club don't have insurance and do shit on my own il dig where I want and the only way any of you will ever see it is to wander round looking for tings like I do cos I will NEVER SHARE ON HERE due to the members
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 09:00:27 am by MarkS, Reason: bad language removed »

Offline CatM

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2018, 08:36:22 am »
Global Moderator Comment Foul language is not tolerated on this forum, please refrain from using it

Offline ganjaman

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2018, 08:51:09 am »
I want my account deleting anyway please this aint the place for me too many perfect people on here laying golden turds for my liking

Offline JasonC

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2018, 08:56:02 am »
...after way people are on here...

What, always ready to give helpful advice?

... kind of ***s that congregate here anyways this is the reason I wont join a club ....

How to make friends and influence people?

I thought the original request looked suspiciously troll-like!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 09:00:52 am by MarkS, Reason: bad language removed from quote »

Offline ganjaman

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2018, 08:58:28 am »
not here to make friends or infuelnce anyone seems majoprity are a bunch of ***s this was proven last night delete this post now and my account don't wanna be here round the sheeple il dig where I want dca is not my concern
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 09:01:23 am by MarkS, Reason: bad language removed »

Offline SamT

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2018, 09:09:27 am »
Calm down everyone.

Ganjaman is not a troll, nor is he trolling.  He's genuinely a really keen kid who is obsessed with digging and exploring mines.  Great, Fair play. 

I dont personally like his use of language, it offends some folk and there is no reason or need for it on here, however, he just needs some help and a steer in the right direction.

I didn't think you were going to fit in on here Jon which is a shame.  I can see that it seems like there are people just putting barriers up for you everywhere, but please also understand that caver/landowner relationships in the peak, and around castleton/bradwell are extremely sensitive, and decades of work has gone into getting to where we are now, and one lone operator can seriously cock it up for everybody else.

Offline Pete K

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2018, 09:14:29 am »
Jon, everyone who has responded to you on here has done so politely and accurately. If you are upset that people are turning around and saying they can't help or 'don't do this' then fair enough, but that is being said to you because there are reasons. The cave/mine world has been through some really bad times, with amazing caves/mines filed in forever or people killed and no one wants to see a return to that. There are systems in place these days to prevent a return to those times. The system may not be perfect, and it might need to you have a £17 plastic card from time to time, but it keeps us able to visit some places. There are amazing digs and projects going on all over, but they have been started with permissions and then the diggers don't need to hide in bushes. I know one dig that even had assistance from the landowner with a helecopter supply drop.

There are people on here that will help you, people on here who can go out with you, but you'll only get the same response from any of them on an open forum, especially if they don't know you  - "get permission". The people you talk to on here are some of the most hardcore cavers and diggers out there, some of them work for organisations like Breedon or National Trust, some of us are in cave rescue and some of the people in this thread alone will have seen and discovered more mine than you'll probably ever see. This place is a hub for people who live and breath caving, mining and digging, you should really listen to responses you get. If you don't like that you hear is everyone else wrong or do you think it could be you?

As I have said to you before, I am happy to continue to help you and so is DCA, but you need to understand that these things we need to do are done for a reason, sometimes they are the only things keeping a site open or cavers allowed to dig. One bad move by someone could jeopodise years of work and lose access for all cavers permanently.

EDIT - cross post with SamT but we make a similar point.

Offline ganjaman

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2018, 09:22:11 am »
you obviously didn't see the post last night as for access people better atrt buying shovels il speak again on fb when my ban is up and let you know the score with the unknown get my account removed from here please it aint my kinda place and when the grammar police chirp up again it will start actions that remove access from a hell of a lot of sites without an excavator to reopen em

Offline Pete K

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2018, 09:31:59 am »
Mines and digging is clearly something you feel very strongly about and I totally understand. It controls or influences all aspects of my life, from my job to my spare time. I can see all you want to do is get on with it.
Now put yourself in this position - you are as passionate about this as you are now, but you see someone who has the potential to do something that will take this ability to do the thing you love away, or make it much harder. Just imagine you won't be able to do dig any more, or the place you have been going into for years suddenly gets filled in, imagine how gutted you'd feel.

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2018, 09:34:48 am »
I mean you just have to look at oblivion cave that was found last year, could have been a great cave. I believe off the top of my head they got it down to 30m deep.

but because Permission wasn't sought, all the hard work went to nothing when the quarry filled it in.

If permission was sought when it was known that there was natural cave in the quarry, the relandscaping could have been stopped.

Ganjaman, if you have found some natural cave passage, then that's fantastic! And i'm sure there will be many people who would help you seek permission for it. I'm 28 years old, call me sad, but i've spent three years helping some of these crazy people dig one hole. If someone either told me we had to fill it in or they told us that they had a camera on it and would send us to jail if we went in.


Call me a bedwetter if you like, but i'd be pretty upset. Some digs or projects do just take time, so be prepared to put the small amount of effort in beforehand if it's going to be a long project.

 Sounds like the National Trust and Breedon Quarry's in Hope are treating you well with your digs, so I wish you all the best.

Offline ganjaman

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2018, 09:37:42 am »
breedon don't know im there haha iv had digs filled in by the coal authority currently in a dispute with them at the minute where they keep mentioning legal action not my concern tho still and I realise people on here will be interest once work is done but il never share anything on here now this place aint for me

Online Alex

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2018, 12:51:38 pm »
I understand your frustrations. It does seem like there are a lot of barriers in the way but it is the way of the modern world. it's what has stopped me bothering to take up my own projects in the UK, though I do join in on other people's digs such as Goyden from time to time. It can take months or years to get that permission, if the landowner is a bit of an arse like some can be,  and don't get me started on the bloody national trust.  So I do understand, but of course I also understand why a land-owner may not wan't you digging holes in his field for his sheep to fall down, or pollute their ground water that their sheep drink (Not sure why they worry about that last one, I have seen sheep drink their own piss, they are not fussy).

So, I get my exploration fix from abroad. I am setting up my own expedition, which is far more paperwork and work in general than getting permission to did in the UK, but I am less bothered about this as this is something you would expect to be hard work.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2018, 01:02:35 pm »
I am setting up my own expedition.


????!!???? Where, what, when...

Online Alex

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2018, 01:17:05 pm »
Not going to say much yet, it's all in the planning stages and we are going off topic.

So far it's to scope an area as it's prospecting this first one will be small in size as in number of people. I will submit my Ghar Parau application in good time (before March, which is the dead-line). We are in-contact with local cavers, who are happy for us to explore there provided we share everything we find, so far it's looking good so far and I am quite excited at the prospects in this overlooked area, watch this space.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2018, 01:36:55 pm »
Oh I see ;) using the old off topic to dodge the subject...

If I can be persuaded, might join some diggers in York, then come to Nidderdale to interrogate you. I'll be hiding behind a drystone wall with a sheep disguise. baaah.

Online Alex

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2018, 01:46:53 pm »
I will have you know I know all the sheep there personally, so I will know which one is you :)

Oh wait, that sounds VERY wrong.
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline badger

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2018, 10:19:55 pm »
gajaman, forget spelling and grammer for the moment, and there is plenty on any forum who's spelling and grammer is shit. I know mine is.
however your hostility really does no favours, you ask perfectly reasonable questions, but then don't seem to like the answers, so your next move is to remove your profile.
which begs the why ask advise in the first place,
all the advise from what I have read is well meant, which you plainly seem to want to ignore even if means falling foul of the legal system with the ultimate sanction ending up with a criminal conviction. But more than that you seem to want to upset the whole caving community in the peak district, and like many others have stated have spent many years building good relationships with land owners.
also your own disregard for your protection of insurance is mind boggling in an age of lets sue, and its not as if its expensive in south of England money its 3 pints of beer.
seriously take a chill pill and re think your strategy for the good of yourself and all the Derbyshire cavers. :)

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Permission for a dig
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2018, 10:47:14 pm »
Badger, Ganja has left the building, and doesn't care. His profile has been removed as well.

He wants to find his own holes, and we can all just do one. I doubt we're going to change his opinion.


I think he's following good advice given by a DCA bod of joining the forum and seeing how it goes, he's tried it and is not interested. I think we should give him lots of credit for biting the bullet and joining just to see if he could cope with us all. We're not all the same, that's what makes the caving community a great group of people.


But I agree, yes, that I don't want to see some of the good work put in by other generations of our kind go to waste.

 

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