Author Topic: Help needed designing new BCA logo  (Read 1245 times)

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2018, 05:43:36 pm »
I like the current logo. It is distinctive, novel, and the image represents caving well. Another of its characteristics is that it is more portrait than landscape. This has made it easier to incorporate into the various websites (e.g. as the icon that appears on the browser tabs).

Offline 2xw

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2018, 07:17:55 pm »
The BCA logo was good for it's time but it is no longer that time and it is no longer good.

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2018, 07:19:35 pm »
it is no longer good.

Wow - I wish I could be as confident in my opinions!

Offline Alex

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2018, 07:31:04 pm »
Why is it outdated? It's not like he's on a ladder?
Anything I say is represents my own opinion and not that of a any club/organisation that I am a member of (unless its good of course)

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2018, 07:59:36 pm »
I'm amazed there's people who think it doesn't looks like it was drawn by a 7 year old in paint. No offence meant but I personally am embarrassed to publish anything with the current BCA logo on it so I'm not sure the decade of brand recognition is all that good :-[

I really like the starter design, I'd happily have it on a document or on a stand. It's iconic of British caving.

Offline langcliffe

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2018, 08:09:13 pm »
I'm amazed there's people who think it doesn't looks like it was drawn by a 7 year old in paint. No offence meant but I personally am embarrassed to publish anything with the current BCA logo on it so I'm not sure the decade of brand recognition is all that good :-[

I really like the starter design, I'd happily have it on a document or on a stand. It's iconic of British caving.

I confess that I was thinking of the BCRA design rather than the BCA - mea culpa.  I admit to having reservations about the current BCA design, although for reasons stated, I would still prefer a portrait logo to a landscape.

Online Roger W

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2018, 08:50:24 pm »
I must admit that the oval feature at the bottom of the current BCA logo - is it meant to represent a cave with stalagmites and stalactites? - makes me think of an open mouth full of decayed teeth.
"That, of course, is the dangerous part about caves:  you don't know how far they go back, sometimes... or what is waiting for you inside."   JRR Tolkein: "The Hobbit"

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2018, 09:01:11 pm »
I must admit that the oval feature at the bottom of the current BCA logo - is it meant to represent a cave with stalagmites and stalactites? - makes me think of an open mouth full of decayed teeth.

Me too  :blink:

Offline HardenClimber3

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2018, 09:12:47 pm »
The BCA don't even have their logo on their front page and clearly needs a change for many reasons

But, first decide...is it still the BCA?

Online Cookie

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2018, 09:14:13 pm »
I'm amazed there's people who think it doesn't looks like it was drawn by a 7 year old in paint.

But the concept is good. Why not just redraw it better?
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Offline Topimo

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2018, 09:59:28 pm »
I'm amazed there's people who think it doesn't looks like it was drawn by a 7 year old in paint.

But the concept is good. Why not just redraw it better?

What is good about it?

Do you have any examples of large, successful, modern companies/charities/organisations with similarly styled logos?  :shrug:

https://justcreative.com/2009/07/27/what-makes-a-good-logo/ (Knowledge of good logo design did exist a decade ago.)

There are guidelines for effective design, the above website runs through a few examples.
These are to be part of a wider design philosophy curated by the artists style, techniques etc, not hard and fast rules, however:

The old logo meets none of them in my opinion.

Simple - No it's cluttered and awkwardly spaced.
Memorable - I only ever remember the green stick man, and I know its says "BCA" but can't visually recall how. I never recall the shape of the adjunct cave feature.
Timeless - Already people are saying it is dated. Even very slick corporate logos get subtle tweaks every decade or so. The old logo does not have that slick foundation.
Versatile - Printed in monochrome (not black and white) I think it looks messy.
Appropriate - Personally I think caving is a pretty cool exploratory sport with many related sub-hobbies, creative interests, and academic endeavors. The old logo does not portray this image, for me it conjures up the awkward perception that exudes from niche hobby worlds such as Detectorism, Stamp Collecting, Model Trains, Wikipedia Moderation, Trainspotting (have I offended enough people yet?).

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those hobbies, but they really don't have the same pizzazz and public appeal as Rock Climbing, Snowsports, Skydiving, Photography, Motorsports, Cycle Sports.

I know which category I know caving fits into for me...but maybe that's youthful adrenaline and adventure seeking.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 10:08:33 pm by Topimo »

Online Sam Richards

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2018, 10:08:20 pm »
The current logo is a nice concept, but doesn't look good. And to make it look good might require a level of detail that then makes it less distinctive.

The proposed design by Queens appeals, not least because it looks good and it's pretty simple. The main feature is the passage outline, which is still distinctive when small
 

Overcoming the issue of landscape/portrait for documents shouldn't be an issue, such as in the deliberately crude rehash below.

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2018, 10:23:43 pm »
I'm amazed there's people who think it doesn't looks like it was drawn by a 7 year old in paint. No offence meant but I personally am embarrassed to publish anything with the current BCA logo on it so I'm not sure the decade of brand recognition is all that good :-[

I really like the starter design, I'd happily have it on a document or on a stand. It's iconic of British caving.

I confess that I was thinking of the BCRA design rather than the BCA - mea culpa.  I admit to having reservations about the current BCA design, although for reasons stated, I would still prefer a portrait logo to a landscape.

That's fair enough - I'd be happy if we could get away with just stealing it from the BCRA  :lol:

Offline HardenClimber3

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2018, 10:25:56 pm »


Something like this....?
A full text title is optional.....

or

« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 10:55:34 pm by HardenClimber3 »

Online Cookie

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2018, 11:11:31 pm »
I disagree Topimo. I think the current design does tick the box for all five criteria (Simple, Memorable, Timeless, Versatile and Appropriate).

The bit that works is the stick man. I'm less keen on the stal. oval. Originally I thought that would give another element to play with but don't think that has ever been done. I once tried it as a favicon but the stick man works better.

I like the proposed design as well but I do think it falls down on the Memorable test. To the public at large it's just a white blob. The design should work for the public as well as cavers. I bet you even most cavers wouldn't recognise it until you pointed it out as Alum Pot.

The best view in British caving isn't looking out into Alum Pot, the best view in British caving is looking out into Alum Pot with an abseiling caver. Here's my genius idea. Remove the standing caver and add the abseiling stick man, in silhouette. That'll give some continuity from the old to the new.



 
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Online JoshW

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2018, 12:16:11 am »
The best view in British caving isn't looking out into Alum Pot, the best view in British caving is looking out into Alum Pot with an abseiling caver. Here's my genius idea. Remove the standing caver and add the abseiling stick man, in silhouette. That'll give some continuity from the old to the new.

might be worth a look.. would rather it be an actual silhouette rather than the stickman though I would think..

Offline alastairgott

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2018, 12:26:07 am »
He's abseiling into the jaws of a therion slope symbol! Eeep!

https://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/_media/therion_symbols_20130407_.pdf
Ok, so it's technically a line slope from the SKBB symbol set, so I'll bet he's abseiling into a blind hole!

Offline nearlywhite

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2018, 12:56:41 am »
I must admit that the oval feature at the bottom of the current BCA logo - is it meant to represent a cave with stalagmites and stalactites? - makes me think of an open mouth full of decayed teeth.

It's clearly a mitochondrion... Which would explain why there's no ladder due to the Electron Transport Chain pumping away. I guess it explains why Gibbs free energy is used for ascending...
I'm not sure I've told a more niche set of jokes  :-\ If it catches on it'll only be a FADH2

Really tried to work in Mitochondrial encephalopathy, but it was beyond M.E.

Offline andrewmc

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2018, 09:12:00 am »
I like the proposed design as well but I do think it falls down on the Memorable test. To the public at large it's just a white blob. The design should work for the public as well as cavers. I bet you even most cavers wouldn't recognise it until you pointed it out as Alum Pot.

I like that it _isn't_ instantly recognizable as a particular cave, yet you can look at it and see that it is a cave (the hint for the general public being the guy standing in it, which gives it scale, and British Caving Association written below it).

I think it would be very easy to get into debates about minutiae of the logo's graphical content while missing the bigger picture:

**the image is decoration for the text**

(nothing more). What makes the logo good is a good choice of font, with the large 'BCA' letters correctly spaced up against the letter-sized image (yes it's larger, but it's in proportion) and with 'British Caving Association' below it. If the image doesn't decorate the text well, it isn't good.

Offline yrammy

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2018, 09:12:26 am »
Sam Richards - that version would work for me.

Offline martinr

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2018, 06:24:25 pm »
...

The proposed design by Queens appeals, not least because it looks good and it's pretty simple. The main feature is the passage outline, which is still distinctive when small
 

....

I showed it (edit: the Sam Richards iteration) to a non-caver. He wanted to know why an expectant mother was silhouetted on an outline map of France. He had no idea it was meant to be a caver  / cave and was baffled by the BCA abbreviation.

Offline Cap'n Chris

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Re: Help needed designing new BCA logo
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2018, 07:08:36 pm »
I showed it (edit: the Sam Richards iteration) to a non-caver. He wanted to know why an expectant mother was silhouetted on an outline map of France. He had no idea it was meant to be a caver  / cave and was baffled by the BCA abbreviation.

Market research gives unexpected insights. Made me laugh.