Author Topic: Caving etiquette  (Read 2073 times)

Offline Samouse1

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Caving etiquette
« on: October 22, 2019, 10:29:32 pm »
Can anyone think of some bits of caving etiquette, unwritten rules, things like that? Stuff like don’t use others rope without permission, defer to permit holders if you are being cheeky. I’ve run into some people who don’t do these things (very rarely thankfully, go caving community!), but as I go with a lot of new cavers, it would be good to pass these things on. Any additions appreciated!

Offline Oceanrower

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 12:47:51 am »
defer to permit holders if you are being cheeky.

I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about...

Online Pete K

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 06:35:42 am »
If you meet another party underground, the group on the way out has priority. I always assume (and teach) that anyone on the way out should be considered wet, cold or late and we let them through / up unless the party gives way and is clearly not wet, cold or late.

Offline aricooperdavis

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 07:38:06 am »
How about big groups wait for little groups, as little groups are generally quicker to pass obstacles? I'm thinking of the Swildon's ladder pitch here, and I will reliably let small parties pass us here, or ascend/descend before us if we're there as a big university group.

Offline Leclused

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 08:43:46 am »
A series of French cartoons about Caving etiquette by Serdu can be found on our website


For the "European year of the Environment" in 1987, Serdu made a series of cartoons illustrating the "Code of Honour" of cavers. They were then published in a walloon caving magazine....

http://scavalon.be/avalonuk/protection/protection_serdu.htm

Luckily Paul made a translation of it :-)

Dagobert L'Ecluse (SC Avalon - Belgium)
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http://scavalon.blogspot.be

Offline SamT

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2019, 08:44:26 am »
Dont shine your light directly in peoples eyes.  More pertinent than ever with retina scorching mega lamps in wholesale use.

Drop to the back of the group if you need to let an eggy one go.

Offline The Old Ruminator

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2019, 09:42:27 am »
Don't drop boulders on fragile pensioners.

Offline droid

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2019, 11:20:21 am »
defer to permit holders if you are being cheeky.

I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about...

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

Offline Maj

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2019, 05:05:00 pm »
Never assume you can get into someones car with caving kit on, even if it is a clean fury.
Always ask first.


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Confucius say "War does not determine who is right, war determine who is left."

Offline Maj

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2019, 05:08:38 pm »
This one for digging teams.

If you have a guest digger join you for a session, don't leave them just hauling bags or tipping spoil the whole time. Give them a chance to dig at the sharp end. They may not be as quick as you or do it exactly a you might. But you're more likely to see them again and every digger was a beginner once - even you.

Maj.
Confucius say "War does not determine who is right, war determine who is left."

Offline phizz4

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 05:22:17 pm »
In 'the old days', when we caved solely on ladders, if you arrived at a pitch already rigged usually Garlands) you left your ladder and rope coiled and used their kit, assuming they would rig your kit after they exit. I wonder if that still happens?

Offline JohnMCooper

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2019, 05:32:30 pm »
Quote
you left your ladder and rope coiled and used their kit, assuming they would rig your kit after they exit. I wonder if that still happens?

Happens all the time at the Twenty in Swildon's Hole.

Having said that last Sunday I very nearly replaced the 12 inch spacing ladder hanging from linked C-links resulting in sloping rungs with a better set-up!

Online maxb727

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2019, 06:28:16 pm »
This one for digging teams.

If you have a guest digger join you for a session, don't leave them just hauling bags or tipping spoil the whole time. Give them a chance to dig at the sharp end. They may not be as quick as you or do it exactly a you might. But you're more likely to see them again and every digger was a beginner once - even you.

Maj.

Yes this one is a great suggestion. I went digging in Wales and the guy let me up the front and it was the best dig I’d been to because of this. I felt more than just another pair of hands being used to haul/drag.


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Offline JasonC

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2019, 07:37:36 pm »
Keep an eye out for the person behind and wait up or slow down if they're dropping a long way behind. 
Without sighing, tutting or looking at your watch, of course!

Sort of obvious, but maybe not to the 'new cavers' mentioned by the OP

Offline AR

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2019, 08:23:07 pm »
Either lay off the garlic bread before a trip, or make sure everyone has some :lol:
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Offline hyweldavies

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2019, 08:34:10 pm »
Quote
you left your ladder and rope coiled and used their kit, assuming they would rig your kit after they exit. I wonder if that still happens?

Happens all the time at the Twenty in Swildon's Hole.

Having said that last Sunday I very nearly replaced the 12 inch spacing ladder hanging from linked C-links resulting in sloping rungs with a better set-up!

I recall a trip in Swinsto where I had to freeclimb out to find our ladder still coiled atatched to the belay at the top. I did use "words" I must admit.

Offline kay

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2019, 11:00:40 pm »
If there's someone behind you in a crawl, don't stop to rest as soon as you reach the end of a pool - move far enough forward that you don't leave them waiting in the water.

Offline Maj

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2019, 12:05:30 am »
Either lay off the garlic bread before a trip, or make sure everyone has some :lol:


Or eat a vegetarian meal home made garlic pesto the night before a caving trip that has small crawling passages.  :'( :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Mind you that said it could have worse without the garlic  :lol: :lol:

Maj.
Confucius say "War does not determine who is right, war determine who is left."

Offline Maj

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2019, 12:13:37 am »
Keep an eye out for the person behind and wait up or slow down if they're dropping a long way behind. 
Without sighing, tutting or looking at your watch, of course!

Sort of obvious, but maybe not to the 'new cavers' mentioned by the OP

 

If everyone on a caving trip did this, groups would rarely get split up.
If the any person slows down and the next one in front does the same and so on until eventually the person at the very front will does the same. Unless it is agreed to split the group and the second are confident and know the way.
 
Works well for cars in convoy. Problem arises when one in the chain decides they must keep up and looses touch with the one behind them.   

Maj.
Confucius say "War does not determine who is right, war determine who is left."

Offline Maj

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2019, 12:17:47 am »
After getting off at the top of a pitch whether it be an SRT, ladder or handline. Look back and check the kit. Ensure that neither the rope or ladder is caught up and that the krabs are hanging correctly (ie not loaded across the gate).
 
Maj.
Confucius say "War does not determine who is right, war determine who is left."

Offline aricooperdavis

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2019, 07:30:55 am »
We were surprised a couple of years ago when we had to explain to a Fresher (mentioning no names, Jon) that it's not normal to piss in your oversuit...   :blink: :yucky:

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2019, 07:31:59 am »
When rigging, bear in mind some of us cavers are shorter than others and can't reach as far - ditto upper body strength.

Offline A_Northerner

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2019, 01:10:31 pm »
In 'the old days', when we caved solely on ladders, if you arrived at a pitch already rigged usually Garlands) you left your ladder and rope coiled and used their kit, assuming they would rig your kit after they exit. I wonder if that still happens?

As ladders aren't as common any more, this unwritten piece of etiquette can be missed by some! This year CHECC was in the Peak District and there were the usual few dozen trips down Giants. One group left their kit to be rigged by the team ahead of them and this wasn't understood by the first team de-rigging. Cue a large group of very cold novice students having a mini rave in Garlands to keep warm while rescue came, their rigging kit well within sight!
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Offline andys

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2019, 02:19:51 pm »
Leave grottos looking colourful by only breaking off the pure white stals for your collection.  :spank:
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Offline Topimo

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Re: Caving etiquette
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2019, 05:50:59 pm »
We were surprised a couple of years ago when we had to explain to a Fresher (mentioning no names, Jon) that it's not normal to piss in your oversuit...   :blink: :yucky:

Depends if you have a nice moisture wicking fabric undersuit, no?