Author Topic: Clatterway Level  (Read 1768 times)

Offline Madness

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Clatterway Level
« on: February 22, 2020, 06:41:38 pm »
We had a trip down Clatterway Level at Bonsall the other night and did a fair bit of exploring. But there were still plenty of passages that we didn't get time to explore fully.
I was wondering if there is any sort of survey available. It would help make sense of a quiet complex and confusing series of passageways.

I was wondering how close Clatterway got to Ball Eye Mine. There's a lot of back-filled passages in Clatterway. Perhaps one might connect to Ball Eye.

Offline markpot

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2020, 02:09:45 pm »
There could be a strong possibility of a connection with the Ball Eye workings.Looking at the ball eye survey ,the workings extend northwards towards the clatterway levels and Barker mentions they were part of the Ball Eye pipe. There is also the Houghton pipe close by which we had a poke in not so long ago,and some of the workings do trend north towards the end of Ball Eye and Clatterway.Really interesting area. Ball Eye to clatterway would be decent through trip if a connection could be found. There are some open shafts up in the woods above covered by metal sheets that may warrant investigation.

Offline markpot

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2020, 02:21:17 pm »
I'm guessing Ball Eye worked Brynes pipe as part of the same title?or was this a unassociated independent venture?

Offline History Trog

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2020, 10:26:59 am »
Clatterway (Brogdale) was surveyed by myself and Andy Hayes in about 1972. I seem to recall that Nick Butcher published our survey in his PhD thesis along with his own survey of the sough level.
The Clatterway workings are an extension of the Houghton Pipe run; they end in a backfill eastwardly as I remember.

Offline AR

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2020, 10:39:40 am »
I think Brynes Pipe was a separate title, but without consulting the Barmaster's books I couldn't say for certain. The shaft with the steel plate over it doesn't drop into particularly extensive workings, though from recollection there were chokes at both ends. The shaft with the steel bars over it may connect with Houghton; I've dropped that and it goes into a level with a winze at the end that looked free-climbable but I was the only one down there at the time so I didn't push it further. However, what I'd got into matched very well with Lawrence Hurt's description of the limit's of NMRG's exploration of Houghton Pipe.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline Madness

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2020, 07:27:10 pm »
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll see if I can find the PhD thesis online.

Offline markpot

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2020, 07:54:44 pm »
Who owns the land that the workings are on?Im guessing its not the qaurry due to the boundry fence.? There would be some decent digging potential here if permission could be gained.

Offline aardgoose

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2020, 08:26:57 pm »
Nick Butcher's PhD thesis is here. I cant see any surveys of that area but the pdf doesn't include some maps mentioned in the contents

https://leicester.figshare.com/articles/Aspects_of_the_structural_control_of_fluorite_mineralisation_in_the_South_Pennine_orefield_with_notes_on_the_mining_potential_/10190786

Offline Madness

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2020, 10:00:10 pm »
Thanks for the link Aardgoose

Offline Big Jim

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2020, 10:30:53 pm »
I think Brynes Pipe was a separate title, but without consulting the Barmaster's books I couldn't say for certain. The shaft with the steel plate over it doesn't drop into particularly extensive workings, though from recollection there were chokes at both ends. The shaft with the steel bars over it may connect with Houghton; I've dropped that and it goes into a level with a winze at the end that looked free-climbable but I was the only one down there at the time so I didn't push it further. However, what I'd got into matched very well with Lawrence Hurt's description of the limit's of NMRG's exploration of Houghton Pipe.

Did you go with Lampwick to those Adam?  Id mentioned them to him last year, along with the one that Andy found hidden in bramble with rems of an old Stow over it at approx. SK28475764. I also stumbled across an open shaft in the wood just above 'The Bungalow' at approx. SK28525749 from memory.

Offline Lampwick

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2020, 12:03:37 am »
Did you go with Lampwick to those Adam? ...

We had a good nosey, the old stowes was actually remains of an old wheel and the shaft was blind. Hawkeye and myself trampled over that area many times while surveying Hollow Phinnis, glad Andy spotted it before we fell down it.

The shaft AR mentions with a metal plate over it was surveyed and went for about 34m, running parallel to Houghton Pipe.

Simplified Clatterway survey, metal lid shaft working and Houghton Pipe relationship shown below, Hollow Phinnis omitted as we're still working on that survey...
Are we nearly there yet?

Offline Lampwick

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2020, 01:24:39 am »
Clatterway (Brogdale) was surveyed by myself and Andy Hayes in about 1972. I seem to recall that Nick Butcher published our survey in his PhD thesis along with his own survey of the sough level.

It's quite likely that I have used a partial copy of that thesis in my posession as the source for some of my data. On that assumption I'd like to acknowledge R.Flindall, A.Hayes and N.Butcher for their contribution.
Are we nearly there yet?

Offline Big Jim

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2020, 08:42:45 am »
So from that then Mart I presume that the open shaft I mention that was just into the woodland north of The Bungalow will almost certainly be part of the Houghton Pipe workings.
Anyone ever dropped the covered shaft outside the entrance to Ruggs Hall?

Offline History Trog

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2020, 10:16:41 am »
Sorry folks i made a mistake about our Clatterway survey being in Nick Butcher's thesis. It was a long while ago and my memory had elided events. What happened was that i gave a copy of our survey to Nick as a favour and he passed it to Colin Oakman (without my permission) and Colin used it (very small scale) in his thesis but credited it to Doug Nash (who had nothing to do with it), much to my annoyance. I have a copy of this and will see if i can get it to attach.
What interested me particularly about the survey was the rift working that leads off the top of a roof shaft at the northwest end of the Clatterway system. It could be accessed through the bodyhole in the hillside above the sloping footpath up the hillside - a very tight rift leads to the shaft top. We put an 8 foot long iron pole over this. The passage beyond was only 3 ft high and 18 inches wide, completely backfilled with rubble - i wanted to dig it because there was a good air flow into it in summer but the only place to dump the rubble was down the shaft, which seemed a bad idea. Also i was working by myself and i found it a very tight squeeze to get along the rift, being clumsy and broad-shouldered. It presumably leads into roof workings high above the end of Brogdale Sough. This rift is the vein crossing the north end of the survey marked A.
I will see if I can attach it - am no good with this stuff. Apologies for giving a wrong ref - memory no good, lived too long.

Offline History Trog

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2020, 10:19:09 am »
Just realised that I should have mentioned that the survey of Brogdale Sough on this plan by Colin Oakman was the work of Nick Butcher. The Ball Eye plan was just a rough out from Lawrence Hurt's survey,

Offline Jenny P

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2020, 10:50:16 am »
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll see if I can find the PhD thesis online.

We have a printed and bound copy of Nick Butcher's Thesis at the British Caving Library - it came from John Beck's collection.  We also have all John's collection of surveys and maps and have just finished cataloguing the ones he kept separately in cardboard tubes; we're just starting on his 8-drawer map chest.

Many of the mines surveys from Glebe Cottage went straight to PDMHS and many of these had actually been Doug Nash's.  We felt it was more appropriate to pass the mining material on as BCL concentrates more of caving.

Offline Madness

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2020, 10:57:06 pm »
Thanks for all the info guys.

Historytrog's map proves that Clatterway and Ball Eye are nowhere near each other.

It's interesting that neither Historytrog's or Lampwick's maps show the upper entrance to Clatterway behind the cottages just off the footpath.

Offline Madness

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2020, 11:06:44 pm »
According to Peakdistrictcaving.info there's a survey in CCPC newsletter number 73. Unfortunately the oldest newsletter on their website is number 81.

Anyone got a copy of number 73?

Offline AR

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2020, 09:21:38 am »
There's probably a copy in the BCL - Mary/Jenny, could you confirm?
Dirty old mines need love too....

Online yrammy

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2020, 09:52:33 am »
See Jenny's reply earlier.
Mary 

Offline AR

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2020, 11:54:25 am »
I was referring to the CPCC newsletter Mary, do you have a copy of the relevant issue in the library?
Dirty old mines need love too....

Online shotlighter

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2020, 12:34:33 pm »
I was referring to the CPCC newsletter Mary, do you have a copy of the relevant issue in the library?
I'm out at moment but when I get home I'll see if I have a copy. (Crewe Sec.)

Offline Jenny P

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2020, 12:48:48 pm »
We don't have any copies of a Crewe CPC Newsletter in the Library.

The only items we have are copies of the Crewe CPC "Club Journal":  Vol. 2 (Jan. 1988) and Vol. 3 (1989).

It seems a pity that we haven't more of the series of publications from Crewe as it doesn't seem that their publications have been sent regularly to BCRA or later the British Caving Library, apart from the 2 mentioned above, and that's a serious gap in our holdings.

As I said earlier, we do have a printed and bound copy of Nick Butcher's Thesis.  This has included in it a large number of maps, surveys and diagrams and I assume these are also included in the online version.


Online shotlighter

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2020, 02:54:56 pm »
I've had a look in my old paper newsletter copies & don't have a No.73 unfortunately. I'll have an ask at our Monday meeting & see if I can track down a copy.
As for Jenny's point about the BCA library, I don't have an archive of publications, just some personal paper & PDF copies.
I do have a copy of the missing Journal No.1 which I think I scanned to PDF - I'll dig it out & email it.
As for a more complete set of Crewe stuff for the library, I'll put it on the agenda for Monday &  see what can be sorted.
Nigel

Offline Jenny P

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Re: Clatterway Level
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2020, 03:04:58 pm »
That would be brilliant Shotlighter - thanks very much!

You'd be surprised at the material we haven't got, which you would have thought would be in any library which included Peak District journals.  It's just that some UK clubs regularly sent one copy of all their publications to the BCRA Library and continued to do this when the BCRA Library became the British Caving Library.

I would encourage all caving clubs to aim to send one printed copy of all their publications to BCL so that we can have as complete a collection as possible.  You'd be amazed at what we get asked for - we find we can sometimes supply a scan of some really out-of-the-way item and then can't produce a copy of something which is relatively common.

 

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