Covid-19 & caving activities - DCA Update

DCA

DCA

Well-known member
Covid-19 & caving activities

The DCA have been asked for advice on returning to caving following new Government guidance on exercise and we felt that we should update cavers on the current local situation. We are not here to police caving or advise one way or the other. What we have chosen to do is to lay out some of the facts as they currently are and highlight any information from relevant bodies or organisations.
Please remember that none of the volunteers here are legal experts and are only seeking to do our best to answer your questions.
We will update this document as the situation changes or national guidance becomes available.

Stay safe and well.
The DCA team.

Direct link to statement:
https://thedca.org.uk/images/dca/news/DCA_Covid-19_Response.pdf
 
Something that has popped up this morning is an update to the Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations.
Daily or unlimited exercise must be taken in "public open spaces":

--- (5) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(ba), ?public open space? includes -
(a) land laid out as a public garden or used for the purpose of recreation by members
of the public;
(b) land which is ?open country? as defined in section 59(2) of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949(a), as read with section 16 of the Countryside
Act 1968(b);
(c) land which is ?access land? for the purposes of Part 1 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000(c) (see section 1(1) of that Act(d)). ---

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/500/pdfs/uksi_20200500_en.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0KCO1K0AnvjLsLK9_ELO5mGg1OnYF4J-Fm0zqTa9_X1_D2QPaQK7aCu4c
 
Pete K said:
Something that has popped up this morning is an update to the Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations.
Daily or unlimited exercise must be taken in "public open spaces":

--- (5) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(ba), ?public open space? includes -
(a) land laid out as a public garden or used for the purpose of recreation by members
of the public;
(b) land which is ?open country? as defined in section 59(2) of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949(a), as read with section 16 of the Countryside
Act 1968(b);
(c) land which is ?access land? for the purposes of Part 1 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000(c) (see section 1(1) of that Act(d)). ---

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/500/pdfs/uksi_20200500_en.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0KCO1K0AnvjLsLK9_ELO5mGg1OnYF4J-Fm0zqTa9_X1_D2QPaQK7aCu4c
Click to expand...

OK, so now I'm confused. Do any of those categories include lowland footpaths through farmland such as you might find in non-national park areas?
 
ttxela2 said:
Pete K said:
Something that has popped up this morning is an update to the Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations.
Daily or unlimited exercise must be taken in "public open spaces":

--- (5) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(ba), ?public open space? includes -
(a) land laid out as a public garden or used for the purpose of recreation by members
of the public;
(b) land which is ?open country? as defined in section 59(2) of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949(a), as read with section 16 of the Countryside
Act 1968(b);
(c) land which is ?access land? for the purposes of Part 1 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000(c) (see section 1(1) of that Act(d)). ---

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/500/pdfs/uksi_20200500_en.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0KCO1K0AnvjLsLK9_ELO5mGg1OnYF4J-Fm0zqTa9_X1_D2QPaQK7aCu4c
Click to expand...

OK, so now I'm confused. Do any of those categories include lowland footpaths through farmland such as you might find in non-national park areas?
Click to expand...

(a) land laid out as a public garden or used for the purpose of recreation by members of the public;

This is a pretty general an all-encompassing definition. I think this would cover lowland footpaths and also caves (if a cave is considered land).
 
PeteHall said:
ttxela2 said:
Pete K said:
Something that has popped up this morning is an update to the Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations.
Daily or unlimited exercise must be taken in "public open spaces":

--- (5) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(ba), ?public open space? includes -
(a) land laid out as a public garden or used for the purpose of recreation by members
of the public;
(b) land which is ?open country? as defined in section 59(2) of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949(a), as read with section 16 of the Countryside
Act 1968(b);
(c) land which is ?access land? for the purposes of Part 1 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000(c) (see section 1(1) of that Act(d)). ---

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/500/pdfs/uksi_20200500_en.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0KCO1K0AnvjLsLK9_ELO5mGg1OnYF4J-Fm0zqTa9_X1_D2QPaQK7aCu4c
Click to expand...

OK, so now I'm confused. Do any of those categories include lowland footpaths through farmland such as you might find in non-national park areas?
Click to expand...

(a) land laid out as a public garden or used for the purpose of recreation by members of the public;

This is a pretty general an all-encompassing definition. I think this would cover lowland footpaths and also caves (if a cave is considered land).
Click to expand...

Lowland footpaths which were also public rights of way were never closed. The changes from today wouldn't affect that. Actually caving? Who knows. All this is Englandshire only.
Jen
 
I believe this is a misinterpretation (although I could be horribly wrong, as usual).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6 for the full, amended legislation (you might have to click some buttons?)

A reasonable excuse could be:
(b)to take exercise?
(i)alone,
(ii)with one or more members of their household, or
(iii)with one member of another household;]
(ba)to visit a public open space for the purposes of open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeing?
(i)alone,
(ii)with one or more members of their household, or
(iii)with one member of another household;

The explanation of 'public open space' only applies to (ba), which is basically the sunbathing exemption. Since caving can be 'exercise', the explanation is not relevant (I think).
 
I was hoping the caving situation in the Peak would be easier with the locals than the Dales... but maybe I was wrong.

It just seems daft to me, and I know the rescue situation is unique to caving, but all other sports including climbing will be resuming I bet. It's just really frustrating and as we know the R rate will soon go over 1 if London is anything to go by so we will soon be locked down again. So waiting another couple of weeks, won't work as the situation will be worse again. I don't see with the above attitude how we will ever go caving without a vaccine. It really is stressing me out not going caving, I have not slept well recently. Caving really helped me in my 20s and I genuinely am lost without it. I don't think I can last an entire year, which is how long its going to be before a vaccine (if one is even possible!). So I am sorry I will have to go somewhere this Friday, otherwise I am not sure I can cope.

That and the economy worries, everything is just fucked :( We are all fucked... what's the point eh?
 
I really sympathise with this position Alex and I bet a lot of others are feeling the same way too.

As far as not upsetting locals goes, how about evening caving trips, so you avoid the swarms of walkers? Doesn't change a lot in relation to any potential rescue, but at least keeps a lower public profile and reduces the density of footfall during the day when it will be busiest.

I've been out on my bike in the evenings recently, leaving about 8pm after the kids are in bed. Hardly see a soul out...
 
PeteHall said:
I really sympathise with this position Alex and I bet a lot of others are feeling the same way too.

As far as not upsetting locals goes, how about evening caving trips, so you avoid the swarms of walkers? Doesn't change a lot in relation to any potential rescue, but at least keeps a lower public profile and reduces the density of footfall during the day when it will be busiest.

I've been out on my bike in the evenings recently, leaving about 8pm after the kids are in bed. Hardly see a soul out...
Click to expand...

Been cycling a lot recently, but with people now able to drive to exercise and being encouraged to go back to work, I imagine the roads will get busier, so currently researching bridleways/graveltracks to avoid the hooligans hammering it round the country lanes round here.
 
First day of the tweaked lockdown arrangements today and I saw absolutely no-one on Ingleborough (late morning). Nobody at all at GG either. By now it should be full of tents and friendly Bratf'd members but everything was eerily quiet. Left GG feeling really sorry for the BPC, knowing how much their members look forward to the winch meet every year.

I suspect 2020 will go down in caving history as a lost year.
 
Pitlamp said:
First day of the tweaked lockdown arrangements today and I saw absolutely no-one on Ingleborough (late morning). Nobody at all at GG either.
Click to expand...

They were probably all in Sheffield, i've never seen it so busy.

I've just visited two businesses and driven past four building sites. Social distancing measures and the wearing of suitable PPE was pretty much non-existent.

I'd be surprised if we aren't back in full lockdown next week.
 
This probably wants to be in this thread too....

The DCA have been informed that:

1. Bagshawe Cavern is closed.
2. The owner of Peakshill Farm is not allowing caving on his land (Giants Hole and Snelslow Swallet).

It is likely that other land owners and tenant farmers, who's good will we rely on for access, will not welcome cavers at this time.
Please respect the wishes of the land owners. These caves are on private land, any unauthorised activity will risk long term access for all.

Angus Sawyer
 
Pete K said:
2. The owner of Peakshill Farm is not allowing caving on his land (Giants Hole and Snelslow Swallet).
Click to expand...

Is this Maurice Gregory, and if so does it also apply to eldon hole and eldon quarry?
 
Not sure mate, you'd need to drop Angus an email for the full details, I'm out of the loop on this one. Guessing - yes, any caving/mining/digging activities are likely to do some damage to the reputation of cavers with these very concerned locals.
 
Don't know the specifics of the current situation butMaurice Gregory does not own the land Giants is on but he is the tenant farmer of it. So I would guess caving is probably not ok anywhere he farms, such as Eldon quarry.....
 
(was composing this before Katie's message) sent nigel a text and he says that it's the peakshill farm owner and not Maurice, but the general feeling he got from those he has spoken to is stay away.
 
The DCA have been made aware that the following sites or areas are currently closed to visitors:

  • Bagshawe Cavern
  • Devonshire Mine
  • Peakshill Farm (Giant's & Snelslow)
  • Peak/Speedwell and other entrances
  • Rowter Farm

It is very likely that other land owners and tenant farmers, who's good will we rely on for access, will not welcome cavers at this time.
Please respect the wishes of the land owners. These caves are on private land, any unauthorised activity will risk long term access for all.
Just because a site is not listed here does not mean that access is currently okay.
 
I note Titan & JH are also listed as closed on the cave registry (as many may not know whose land they are on):
https://registry.thedca.org.uk/registry/sitedetails.php?id=32
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

DCA
DCA Cave Discovery Fund
Replies
0
Views
338
DCA
DCA
Vkocher
DCA Cave Monitoring Competition
Replies
0
Views
189
Vkocher
Vkocher
thehungrytroglobite
Caving & National Parks
Replies
4
Views
831
mikem
M
Dave Shearsmith
BCRA NEWSLETTER APRIL 2025
Replies
8
Views
720
Pitlamp
Pitlamp
Dave Shearsmith
BCRA NEWSLETTER MARCH 2025
Replies
0
Views
395
Dave Shearsmith
Dave Shearsmith
Back
Top