Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 11550 times)

Offline Brains

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #225 on: January 31, 2021, 12:56:26 pm »
What is left of the UK is now a third country, like any other, and subject to the rules that we helped write while still a member. Why do you complain about what leavers wanted, voted for and won? Or didnt you know what you voted for, or didnt read the small print, or believed the myriad of lies... This situation is what was predicted but rose tinted leavers refused to see it.  :down:

Offline Fjell

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #226 on: January 31, 2021, 01:03:10 pm »
Things will be in state of constant flux. A decade from now will be very different. What the saner end of the Tory party wants is to go back to the EEC, pre-Maastricht. It’s not unlikely. And for info, it’s what the left of the Labour party wants too.

I voted to remain because I believed our role was to thoroughly screw up any attempt to form a single state in Europe, which would inevitably lead to discord and conflict.

What do you think of this behaviour? Pretty ugly, eh?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/31/france-germany-threaten-covid-astrazeneca-vaccine-shortageeu-uk
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 01:14:34 pm by Fjell »

Offline aardgoose

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #227 on: January 31, 2021, 02:03:16 pm »

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #228 on: January 31, 2021, 02:34:19 pm »
I don't feel happy or safe in the UK anymore.
Have you ever lived anywhere else?

Pretty sure you'll find that the UK is one of the safest, freest and least racist countries in the world.

Sure, there is always room for improvement, but let's keep things in perspective.

Offline Fjell

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #229 on: January 31, 2021, 02:50:08 pm »
I have lived in several of the countries and I can assure you they are full of [racist comments redacted] in the main. So no need to worry.

The Germans are still saying today they are going to send tanks for their British vaccine. Ironically, under von der Leyen as defence minister, the tanks were not maintained and are largely now ornaments.

I have high hopes for several million HK Chinese freshening up the UK gene pool. It def needs it.



Perhaps its time to remind all users of the Forum's Acceptable Usage Policy.
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What is a bannable offence? (From https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=1872.0)



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[/quote

Sure. It’s called satire. I wasn’t the one saying we were joining a trade group because some of the countries had white people in them. You didn’t mod that, so that's OK is it? You note that these are countries I went to live in of of my own accord, right? Think it through.

Offline Wolfo

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #230 on: January 31, 2021, 02:56:40 pm »
Well I'm German, no problem with that.
We have a great tradition of beeing guity for everything, so why nor including the climate change or Brexit.  ::)
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Offline paul

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #231 on: January 31, 2021, 02:58:31 pm »
I have lived in several of the countries and I can assure you they are full of [racist comments redacted] in the main. So no need to worry.

The Germans are still saying today they are going to send tanks for their British vaccine. Ironically, under von der Leyen as defence minister, the tanks were not maintained and are largely now ornaments.

I have high hopes for several million HK Chinese freshening up the UK gene pool. It def needs it.



Perhaps its time to remind all users of the Forum's Acceptable Usage Policy.
Quote
What is a bannable offence? (From https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=1872.0)



* Trolling and malicious hijacking of topics.


* Personal insults/attacks/threats - we're all adults, keep it civil.


* Hatred: Sexism/Racism/etc - most of us know what is and isn't acceptable and what is and isn't real hatred.


Sure. It’s called satire. I wasn’t the one saying we were joining a trade group because some of the countries had white people in them. You didn’t mod that, so that's OK is it? You note that these are countries I went to live in of of my own accord, right? Think it through.

Global Moderator Comment The moderation was as a result of a complaint from another Form user.Did you read the Forum Acceptable Usage Policy in the link given? It also includes:
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Arguing with moderator's decisions on the public forum. Feel free to contact the mod team if you disagree with a decision but do it privately. If you're banned then use the email contact form
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline mikem

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #232 on: January 31, 2021, 03:00:05 pm »
Not a lot of point putting a reminder on a post that's 2 hours old & already on a previous page though.

Offline Fjell

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #233 on: January 31, 2021, 03:33:45 pm »
Well I'm German, no problem with that.
We have a great tradition of beeing guity for everything, so why nor including the climate change or Brexit.  ::)

I have had several misty-eyed German bosses in various countries, and my partner in crime for about a decade was from Hanover. There was significant banter on English and German memes. Maybe this isn't the right place for tank jokes. Needs context.

Although it is funny watching a German manager suddenly realise he has the wrong contract. Although you probably have to be Dutch to fully appreciate it.

Offline Fishes

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #234 on: January 31, 2021, 03:56:27 pm »

Pretty sure you'll find that the UK is one of the safest, freest and least racist countries in the world.


As a member of a long marginalised minority, I have experienced plenty of violence, abuse and discrimination in the UK. Things seemed to be steadily improving since the 1990's but I'm starting to see thing moving in the opposite direction.

I've worked extensively in Asia and Central Europe without experiencing those issues but I have to admit that the rise of right wing populist governments in Hungary and Poland makes me feel a lot less comfortable about working there in the future.

Offline mikem

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #235 on: January 31, 2021, 04:03:49 pm »
If you have money you're often insulated from those prejudices.

Offline Fjell

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #236 on: January 31, 2021, 04:23:03 pm »
Not the case. I have to intervene in multiple countries where staff were being blatantly discriminated against by various parties. Trying being black in SE Asia, it’s grim. You have a black woman earning north of £100k being repeatedly refused service locally, and they knew she was well off. All black staff experienced similar problems.

For me the most eye-opening was in Norway. The behaviour of local shops and business towards Arab staff was appalling. I had to send senior Norwegians with them just to get a mobile phone. They literally refused to sell one to them, and were unrepentant. This is barely a decade ago.

It is better in the UK than anywhere I have been. It’s not perfect.


Offline mikem

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #237 on: January 31, 2021, 04:35:54 pm »
That's why I included "often".

Offline JoshW

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #238 on: January 31, 2021, 04:42:28 pm »
Not the case. I have to intervene in multiple countries where staff were being blatantly discriminated against by various parties. Trying being black in SE Asia, it’s grim. You have a black woman earning north of £100k being repeatedly refused service locally, and they knew she was well off. All black staff experienced similar problems.

Whilst living in South East Asia I knew of English teachers of colour being looked over for jobs because they weren't white. Job adverts wouldn't even hide it, advertising for whites or slightly more discretely 'western appearance'. Personally never witnessed (or heard of) discrimination in SE Asia outside of the job market though.

Offline PeteHall

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #239 on: January 31, 2021, 04:51:49 pm »
In plenty of countries, simply being a citizen isn't enough. If you aren't from the native ethnic group, the law treats you differently.

We're not talking about individuals with a bad attitude, we're talking about the actual law.

Like everywhere in the world, there are racist individuals in this country, some of them in positions of influence or power,  but we're a lot better off here than anywhere else I can think of.

Personally never witnessed (or heard of) discrimination in SE Asia outside of the job market though.
Having spent a reasonable amount of time in SE Asia (my wife is from Malaysia) I can assure you that racism at both state and individual level is incredibly prevalent. They don't even try to hide it, it's written boldly into law. I can't speak for other SE Asian countries, but so far as I know, it's a very similar situation. Try being a 6th generation immigrant and getting told you have less rights (in law) because your skin is the wrong colour, so you don't belong there...

Offline Fjell

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #240 on: January 31, 2021, 05:37:15 pm »
As a graduate trainee I used to spend a fair amount of time writing visa applications for people who had been made stateless in the country they were born in.

Yeah, Malaysia. Possibly the most corrupt country on the planet with some of the nicest people you can meet. I retired after getting weary with the powers that be in Malaysia. They hated me up to governmental level for refusing to look the other way. Some very very stiff little meetings in KL. It’s just not done. I starting thinking it might get unhealthy. But you have to live with yourself.

Lets do some team building:

« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 05:47:52 pm by Fjell »

Offline Fishes

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #241 on: January 31, 2021, 06:42:39 pm »
I worked in Malaysia in 2008 (Just outside JB) I'm aware that the law treats descendants of Indian and Chinese immigrants less favourably than ethnic Malaysians and was told that this was originally due to laws put in place by the British before independence. Muslims and non-Muslims are also treated differently.

British law has also discriminated against me and others like me for much of my life. This has improved greatly over the last thirty years, partly due to social changes, but also as the result of important rulings from the European Court of Human Rights.

Over the years since the referendum there have been increasing calls or some of those rights to be removed.

It might be easy to believe that Britain is safe and free of discrimination if that has been your experience, but for others it can be very different.






 

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