Brexit

Mrs Trellis

Mrs Trellis

Well-known member
[gmod]New Topic split from "The Eyam Spirit" https://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=27329.0 [/gmod]

Re Brexit - we have to do it because it was put to a free vote and "won".

The timing is bad because remainiacs in both Houses and their allies in the Civil Service adopted the Trumpian policy of refusing to accept the democratic mandate and tried to subvert it in every way. Those who repeatedly voted against May's proposals have brought about the current sad state of affairs and have only themselves to blame.
 
An interesting reimagining of recent history

Those who repeatedly voted against May's proposals have brought about the current sad state of affairs and have only themselves to blame
Click to expand...

Those voting against May's 'deal' included most of the current cabinet and the membership of the ERG.
 
aardgoose said:
An interesting reimagining of recent history

Those who repeatedly voted against May's proposals have brought about the current sad state of affairs and have only themselves to blame
Click to expand...

Those voting against May's 'deal' included most of the current cabinet and the membership of the ERG.
Click to expand...
Indeed. And of course, a no-deal Brexit is what many of them were after in the first place,  and unlike us poor ordinary suckers, stand to benefit financially from their overseas investments in that event.
 
The number of remainiac MP's who voted against May vastly outnumbered the Brexiteers. It was transparently obvious that the remainiacs used any tool available to stop the mandate to leave the EU.
 
Mrs Trellis said:
...remainiacs in both Houses and their allies in the Civil Service adopted the Trumpian policy of refusing to accept the democratic mandate...
Click to expand...

An obvious comparison and one that I am surprised I have not heard previously, though I doubt either will enjoy being compared to the other! Combine this with the increasing trend of no-platforming anyone who disagrees with those who shout loudest and you wonder if democracy has had its time in the west...
 
The number of remainiac MP's who voted against May vastly outnumbered the Brexiteers. It was transparently obvious that the remainiacs used any tool available to stop the mandate to leave the EU.
Click to expand...

Ignoring the infantile name calling,  history is still being rewritten.  In the final vote for May's deal would have passed if the ERG members and DUP who can hardly be accused of supporting the EU, had voted for it. Leave supporters voting against May's deal led to this situation.

And if the current government which can hardly be accused of supporting remain had any sense of responsibility for the UK, it could have extended the transition period earlier this year, but refused to, despite many warnings that winter would see a second wave. 

Blaming the people who advised against an action for the problems caused by that action seems to be a very popular at the moment. Strangely those people who promote "personal responsibility".
 
The current govt. was elected with a large majority on the basis of "get Brexit done". The voters were obviously totally fed up with the actions of the remainiacs who showed the same respect for democracy that Trump and his supporters did and still do.
 
the Brexit supporters blatantly lied to the electorate, stirred up xenophobia, and acted illegally in obtaining their Brexit objective, so I hardly think us who appreciated what a disaster this would create can be compared to Trump's current insanity.
 
The current govt. was elected with a large majority on the basis of "get Brexit done". The voters were obviously totally fed up with the actions of the remainiacs who showed the same respect for democracy that Trump and his supporters did and still do.
Click to expand...

Still the childish insults to avoid admitting that the current problems can be laid at the feet of the current government.

And appealing to 'The Voters' ignores the fact that the majority of the UK population now believes it was a mistake to leave the EU. I expect the 'Will of the People' to be invoked next.
 
I don?t think it was really a vote on the EU, but on ?London? and life in general. The UK has it?s own problems to sort out. Maybe it is time to focus on that. We have to spend trillions on rebuilding energy and transport for starters.

If you think we have issues, you should try France. Figaro today said that a quarter of those in the Ille de France were the victims of assault or crime last year. That?s millions of people. One reason a lot of French expats dismiss Paris as a major financial centre is because they say it is unliveable. And that?s before you get people started on the ?narque. ?Emily in Paris? is not reality.
 
Having once driven near Paris, I can agree with that. It looked like Detroit after the car industry moved out. Did not seem to be a good place. Still there are plenty of other place the new centre of Europe can go, now we have given it up (remind me why we did that by the way?) Something to do with sovereignty (which we had already) and "dirty" foreigners or something like that.

Just what the government wants though, a population divided is a population controlled, race to the bottom, with a dismal economy as the excuse.
 
Good grief.  I?ve been called a remoaner, project fear,remainiac and a Union Jack hater.  Now I?m told I follow the politics of trump and this mess is my fault.
Staggering.
We have left one of the most powerful union of countries in the world to go alone.  No country goes alone. There trading blocks all over the world, we chose to leave one of the best.
4 years and 3 Tory leaders and no deal is pathetic.  Raab didn?t even know Dover was important.
As for the Eyam Spirit.  If 10% of the population can?t be bothered then it?s herd immunity.  Who?s says that works?
 
?A witch, a witch!?
?How do we know she?s a witch??
?She looks like one? ;)

Duck ditch said:
Good grief.  I?ve been called a remoaner, project fear,remainiac and a Union Jack hater.  Now I?m told I follow the politics of trump and this mess is my fault.
Staggering.
Click to expand...
 
Duck ditch said:
Good grief.  I?ve been called a remoaner, project fear,remainiac and a Union Jack hater.  Now I?m told I follow the politics of trump and this mess is my fault.
Staggering.
We have left one of the most powerful union of countries in the world to go alone.  No country goes alone. There trading blocks all over the world, we chose to leave one of the best.
4 years and 3 Tory leaders and no deal is pathetic.  Raab didn?t even know Dover was important.
As for the Eyam Spirit.  If 10% of the population can?t be bothered then it?s herd immunity.  Who?s says that works?
Click to expand...

The sniffy behaviour in Europe is because we are not remotely leaving. If we were being towed off into the sunset, then that would be what it is. But we are not, we are plonked in NW Europe, and there is serious angst that we are going to get a free ride. And they are probably right. We already got one from playing off Sterling against the Euro, we are shielded from a lot of immigration pressure and we now cease to directly subsidise southern and eastern Europe.
 
Duck ditch said:
There trading blocks all over the world, we chose to leave one of the best.
Click to expand...

Eh? You are incorrect on two counts:
1. It is not a trading block, it is a pathway to a United States of Europe. If they stopped at a trading bloc, that would be fine. But the USE is never going to work! If Scotland and Wales are both moving towards independence, after hundreds of years union, I don't see how we are going to jump into bed with Greece.
2. It is the most bureaucratic burdensome cancer of an organisation that is bleeding the economies dry. It needs scaling back, and a good kick in the balls like Brexit is what it needs. If you were a one-man band trying to bring a product to market, you would understand what a disincentive to business the EU is.

Chris.
 
Am I the only one who finds that pejorative terms like "remainiac" diminishes any argument or discussion  that contains them?
 
Robert Scott said:
Am I the only one who finds that pejorative terms like "remainiac" diminishes any argument or discussion  that contains them?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately both viewpoints diminish the argument with pejoratives. I suspect being of the 'leave' persuasion opens one up to more opprobrium / accusations of all sorts of nonsense than 'remain'

Chris.
 
Robert Scott said:
Am I the only one who finds that pejorative terms like "remainiac" diminishes any argument or discussion  that contains them?
Click to expand...
No your not, but the insults are probably the result of frustration at not having a convincing argument - and, of course, the very real fear that, when all the problems become realities, this government will, of course, blame the very people who voted for Brexit in the first place.
 
Prominent Brexit backer, Tory funder and Boris' chum Peter Cruddas to be made a Lord - in defiance of advice by the Lord's Appointment Commission. So maybe Brexit does have it's benefits?

 
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