Brexit...

[Oceanrower]

And the level of education has gone right down, too...

 

[Pitlamp]

we all voted leave because it cannot get much worse here ! 

Purely in the interests of accuracy - actually almost half of the population voted to stay.

It would be interesting to hold another national survey in, say, 12 months time (when the real problems caused by our foot shooting exercise have become more apparent) whether that proportion would be different.

Because yes, it certainly could get much worse.

Sadly, I suspect a lot of what Alex posted above may well prove right.

[Down and beyond]

And the level of education has gone right down, too...

 

It has I totally agree . For example I went moulton collage 2 years bricklaying , I am sure you will all find this rather interesting, you spend 60% of the time in a class room then around 20% doing drawings etc plans the remaining is practical with not using real cement you use “lime and sand “ after building your model which is extremely posh and a very old style bond you would never use today unless in Oxford or for listed buildings  , so anyway you pass get on a building site forget 95% of what you have been taught and then you are extremely slow ! And earn terrible money for a long time because you have to learn to do it the way that do in the real world !

So basically you have a classroom full of 17 year old lads trying to learn to do a footing on a peace of paper and a slide show ?

[mikem]

But hey, there were far worse times when you could have been alive.

[Pitlamp]

But hey, there were far worse times when you could have been alive.

Indeed - it's always wise to count one's blessings.

[ChrisJC]

But hey, there were far worse times when you could have been alive.

Exactly. All other times in history to be precise. The present time is the best time so far. The high standard of living that we enjoy is completely unprecedented. We are so fortunate. Yet people moan on and make out that the world is a terrible place. I just don't understand why? Are they so completely self obsessed that they don't even look out of the window?

I would say, if you aren't happy here, then piss off somewhere else. Good bye and good riddance. We don't need you. I would rather be surrounded by happy grateful optimists than a bunch of depressed doom mongers.

As for Brexit, note it was a vote to leave the EU political project. Which we have done. Now we will have to put up with the EU using trade as a stick to beat us with for our temerity in not sharing the dream. For a while. It will settle down in time. We are only 5 weeks in FFS!

Let's not forget that Switzerland is not in the EU. Neither is Norway. Neither is the Isle of Man. Neither are the Channel Islands. The world has NOT ended in any of those places, so why will it here? (unless we manage a self fulfilling prophesy driven by the Guardian and it's acolytes)

We have drifted some way from Covid now!!

Chris.

[Down and beyond]

We have drifted some way from Covid now!!

Chris.
[/quote/]

 

 

[Oceanrower]

But hey, there were far worse times when you could have been alive.

I would say, if you aren't happy here, then piss off somewhere else. Good bye and good riddance. We don't need you.

Unfortunately, the number of countries that that was so, relatively, easy to do has recently been reduced by about 27...

[Alex]

You will see "Down and beyond", just how much worse things can get, virus or no virus. I understand things are shit anyway, I am only now at (39) able to buy my own home, but I don't understand is why were managed to be conned into thinking it was the EU's fault, when its all down to our governments fault!  The money we pay into the EU is peanuts compared to the loss of trade and other things, just add up the figures it already has cost. Our membership, was good value for money. It's like paying caving club membership fees to use their tackle, you could not bother, but then you would end up having to pay a lot more to buy all your own stuff. Yes it's yours but you have spent £300, rather than £30 quid a year, you could say well I will see a benefit in 10 years time, but then your gear will wear out and need replacing before then so you never will.

If you want change for the better, then stop voting Tory/UKIP! It seems instead of voting for a brighter future, it looks you have voted to make things much worse, maybe it will be better in 50 years, but most of us will be dead by then!

P.s. if you said Brexit came at the worse time, then why did dear old Borris not apply for extension and do Brexit after the pandemic which would have been far more sensible, rater than compounding everything. We are screwed, this country has no future thanks to both Brexit and Covid, and it's our own fault for voting for Borris (mishandled the pandemic so badly (worse economic hit and worse deaths in Europe, so worse of both worlds) and Brexit.

[Alex]

We are only 5 weeks in FFS!

Precisely and look how bad it is already! We can't piss off, that's part of my point, so where do you suggest half the country goes. I think you will find I am being realistic where as you lot seem to living in cloud cookoo land!

P.s. I would be fine not being in the EU like Norway if we actually stayed in the EEA and other organisations like they have rather than leaving everything including the EU foreign exchange programme for students FFS!

There was never a vote to leave the EEA etc, but the gov did that anyway.

[ChrisJC]

Unfortunately, the number of countries that that was so, relatively, easy to do has recently been reduced by about 27...

Is it impossible though?

Chris.

[Down and beyond]

I personally still disagree I am voting for the future I no I can manage but I don’t wish my children to have a shit time in life and struggle with a 40 year mortgage , nothing is impossible it surly will be a bumpy ride getting their but England is good at firsts ww1 first tank and broke the German lines , we will manage brexit if we achieved this .

As for covid figures every loss is a tragedy around the world but do you truly believe the other countries figures I sure don’t .

[Alex]

Anyway, why don't you lot piss off and let us sort out the mess you lot made Chriss? Why should we leave because you fecked us all up? I would not want to leave if it was not for Brexshit and Borris the destroyer of dreams!.

I wish I knew what the drug you lot are taking to make you see Brexshit as a good thing, can I have some, I need some cheering up.

[mikem]

P.s. if you said Brexit came at the worse time, then why did dear old Borris not apply for extension and do Brexit after the pandemic which would have been far more sensible, rater than compounding everything. We are screwed, this country has no future thanks to both Brexit and Covid, and it's our own fault for voting for Borris (mishandled the pandemic so badly (worse economic hit and worse deaths in Europe, so worse of both worlds) and Brexit.

Whatever happened Brexit needed finishing off, the government hasn't really dealt with anything else in the economy for the last 5 years & that's a long time in politics.

Mind you Corona virus has a long way to go yet too.

[ChrisJC]

Just to dangerously meander back on topic, the whole EU response to Covid was very telling.
Essentially, Ursula van der Leyen did the right thing. The EU is a community, it is driven by ideology. They had to respond as one.
Unfortunately it very much failed the needs of the people.

And that is exactly what is wrong with the EU, and why I voted to get off the bus.

I don't give a monkeys about all of the trivia I hear wailing about - lack of Custard Creams in shops in Paris. I care much more about not being on an ideologically driven journey to somewhere I don't want to go. We had a once in a lifetime opportunity to offer feedback, and we took it.

Did the EU treat it as a wake-up call?, that 17 million people were not happy with them?, no, they took it as an opportunity to punish us for not sharing their ideology. And tried to strong-arm us into changing our mind. Sounds pretty authoritarian to me! Fortunately Boris knows how to negotiate (unlike Theresa May and the BBC), and got us the best deal he could.

And the recent fiasco with the non-border in NI is a great indication of how the EU will treat people - with contempt. Including its own - see Greece. You're no safer on the inside.

Bye bye EU, in 5 or 10 years we will look back and be glad we did this. Even the Guardian and the BBC!

Chris.

[Alex]

it surly will be a bumpy ride getting their but England is good at firsts ww1 first tank and broke the German lines , we will manage brexit if we achieved this .

A bumpy road we did not need to take and how many people died fighting in world war 1, is that what you want for the future of this country. This is a war we did not need to fight in the first place. EU are meant to be our allies now, we have pulled up the rug and stuck 2 fingers up at them and now expect them to play nice. Well they not and you know what I told you so.

[ChrisJC]

Anyway, why don't you lot piss off and let us sort out the mess you lot made Chriss? Why should we leave because you fecked us all up? I would not want to leave if it was not for Brexshit and Borris the destroyer of dreams!.

I wish I knew what the drug you lot are taking to make you see Brexshit as a good thing, can I have some, I need some cheering up.

But you are the one wanting to leave? Not me. I am very happy here. Everytime I look out of my window, or go out in my car, I realise how fortunate I am. And I am looking forward to an even better future now we are free of the albatross that is the EU.

I come hear and listen to you to burst my bubble!

Chris.

[Down and beyond]

it surly will be a bumpy ride getting their but England is good at firsts ww1 first tank and broke the German lines , we will manage brexit if we achieved this .

A bumpy road we did not need to take and how many people died fighting in world war 1, is that what you want for the future of this country. This is a war we did not need to fight in the first place. EU are meant to be our allies now, we have pulled up the rug and stuck 2 fingers up at them and now expect them to play nice. Well they not and you know what I told you so.

Are allies that in ww1 where getting their arses kicked so we had to make a diversion costing over 100k people to save their town ! Don’t ever forget about the price we payed them with are blood and now they treat us like crap I say good bye for good


Ent worth custard creams mate 

[mikem]

Boris just ended up with pretty much the same deal that Theresa May turned down.

If only they'd stayed out of Belgium, we could have let the Germans have France (& the EU wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for the World Wars.) Still war is good for business...

[Alex]

Yes we seem to forget the whole point of the EU is to stop wars like that ever happening. It started by not allowing one country to amass a large amount of steal to build warships for themselves and instead insisted that it needed to be shared (I am paraphrasing). They only treat us like crap as you put it, because if they don't and then other countries leave, well it could bring back the bad old days and another war. That's the reason, its up to us to make sure that future never happens, to make sure millions need not loose their lives needlessly in another war ever again! Yes the EU is not perfect, but it's ideals, which is basically stopping another war needs to remain.

We threaten to disrupt that peace, just look at what Brexit is doing in Ireland already, I for one am ashamed to call myself British with such a selfish yet also self damaging endeavour called Brexit and I can never be part of it.

We are even breaking up our own union over it, as 2 of the 4 countries voting remain were ignored.

[mikem]

Although the main problem the planet faces is overpopulation...

[Down and beyond]

Also as you have said mate other countries will leave if they don’t put their foot down .

Why because they no they could do better .

[JoshW]

Although the main problem the planet faces is overpopulation...

The main problem the planet faces is the unequal distribution of wealth. This is what has caused developing countries populations to sky rocket. This is what has encouraged capitalism to encourage people to decimate the environment for their own personal gain.

Overpopulation is a symptom not a cause

[Alex]

I agree re overpopulation, whether it's a symptom or not, it's definately our main issue now and is the root cause of climate change.

Oh look, we have switched topics again lol. Good I think we have all said as much as there has to be said on the B word.

[mikem]

Spreading that wealth around wouldn't decrease the rate of climate change. A tiny fraction of the population are responsible for the majority of that.