Brexit...

Alex

Well-known member
it surly will be a bumpy ride getting their but England is good at firsts ww1 first tank and broke the German lines , we will manage brexit if we achieved this .

A bumpy road we did not need to take and how many people died fighting in world war 1, is that what you want for the future of this country. This is a war we did not need to fight in the first place. EU are meant to be our allies now, we have pulled up the rug and stuck 2 fingers up at them and now expect them to play nice. Well they not and you know what I told you so.
 

ChrisJC

Well-known member
Alex said:
Anyway, why don't you lot piss off and let us sort out the mess you lot made Chriss? Why should we leave because you fecked us all up? I would not want to leave if it was not for Brexshit and Borris the destroyer of dreams!.

I wish I knew what the drug you lot are taking to make you see Brexshit as a good thing, can I have some, I need some cheering up.

But you are the one wanting to leave? Not me. I am very happy here. Everytime I look out of my window, or go out in my car, I realise how fortunate I am. And I am looking forward to an even better future now we are free of the albatross that is the EU.

I come hear and listen to you to burst my bubble!

Chris.
 

tomferry

Well-known member
Alex said:
it surly will be a bumpy ride getting their but England is good at firsts ww1 first tank and broke the German lines , we will manage brexit if we achieved this .

A bumpy road we did not need to take and how many people died fighting in world war 1, is that what you want for the future of this country. This is a war we did not need to fight in the first place. EU are meant to be our allies now, we have pulled up the rug and stuck 2 fingers up at them and now expect them to play nice. Well they not and you know what I told you so.

Are allies that in ww1 where getting their arses kicked so we had to make a diversion costing over 100k people to save their town ! Don?t ever forget about the price we payed them with are blood and now they treat us like crap I say good bye for good


Ent worth custard creams mate  (y)
 

mikem

Well-known member
Boris just ended up with pretty much the same deal that Theresa May turned down.

If only they'd stayed out of Belgium, we could have let the Germans have France (& the EU wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for the World Wars.) Still war is good for business...
 

Alex

Well-known member
Yes we seem to forget the whole point of the EU is to stop wars like that ever happening. It started by not allowing one country to amass a large amount of steal to build warships for themselves and instead insisted that it needed to be shared (I am paraphrasing). They only treat us like crap as you put it, because if they don't and then other countries leave, well it could bring back the bad old days and another war. That's the reason, its up to us to make sure that future never happens, to make sure millions need not loose their lives needlessly in another war ever again! Yes the EU is not perfect, but it's ideals, which is basically stopping another war needs to remain.

We threaten to disrupt that peace, just look at what Brexit is doing in Ireland already, I for one am ashamed to call myself British with such a selfish yet also self damaging endeavour called Brexit and I can never be part of it.

We are even breaking up our own union over it, as 2 of the 4 countries voting remain were ignored.
 

tomferry

Well-known member
Also as you have said mate other countries will leave if they don?t put their foot down .

Why because they no they could do better .

 

JoshW

Well-known member
mikem said:
Although the main problem the planet faces is overpopulation...

The main problem the planet faces is the unequal distribution of wealth. This is what has caused developing countries populations to sky rocket. This is what has encouraged capitalism to encourage people to decimate the environment for their own personal gain.

Overpopulation is a symptom not a cause
 

Alex

Well-known member
I agree re overpopulation, whether it's a symptom or not, it's definately our main issue now and is the root cause of climate change.

Oh look, we have switched topics again lol. Good I think we have all said as much as there has to be said on the B word.
 

mikem

Well-known member
Spreading that wealth around wouldn't decrease the rate of climate change. A tiny fraction of the population are responsible for the majority of that.
 

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Watching this discussion develop has been fascinating. The two camps still very much disagree on the wisdom of Brexit, yet it's all been very civil. Potholers aren't a bad lot really!  (y)
 

al

Member
mikem said:
Although the main problem the planet faces is overpopulation...

The main problems facing us at the moment are covid (and all its future editions) and climate change - both are global existential issues which will only be dealt with by universal collaberation.

This was not a good time for things like Brexit; climate change / covid will make ATAD II (the real reason we brexited) totally irrelevant.
 

ChrisJC

Well-known member
Alex said:
I agree re overpopulation, whether it's a symptom or not, it's definately our main issue now and is the root cause of climate change.

Well we will agree on that for sure! Overpopulation will for sure lead to an epic disaster. All this current 'saving the planet' nonsense is just like Nero - playing the fiddle while Rome burns (I might have got that wrong!). Whenever you read about some new approach to the environment, you can always achieve the same by reducing the population.
Alex said:
Oh look, we have switched topics again lol. Good I think we have all said as much as there has to be said on the B word.

Ahahahaha, there will never be an end to the Brexit debate.

Chris.

 

mikem

Well-known member
al said:
The main problems facing us at the moment are covid (and all its future editions) and climate change - both are global existential issues which will only be dealt with by universal collaberation.
& both are a consequence of overpopulation... (People have been predicting that for centuries)
 

al

Member
mikem said:
al said:
The main problems facing us at the moment are covid (and all its future editions) and climate change - both are global existential issues which will only be dealt with by universal collaberation.
& both are a consequence of overpopulation... (People have been predicting that for centuries)

Neither is necessarily the result of overpopulation, despite your prediction.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Drastically improving living standards, education and income automatically reduces overpopulation, wherever it happens. We seem overpopulated, but most of the country is empty space with the majority clustered in already-existing urban centres. At the extremes, it's too much and causes population replacement decline. There is a magic number in the middle that allows stable, sustainable population replacement (or even 'managed' decline to improve the quality of life per individual). Money is easily the best contraceptive, as most birth rates are directly proportional to income and personal safety/security/wellbeing. Johnnies aren't cheap if you're shagging every night due to the lack of quality entertainment.

But that means giving the poor parts of the world a LOT of money, soon. Or giving them the means to make their own money - soon. Otherwise they'll keep having lots of babies and wanting to move here.
 

tomferry

Well-known member
I no very little about this have always heard about it but never followed it so a interesting read !

Is their really a solution though ? Would it be for a single country the solution as law/government brought in .

or a worldwide joint solution  where all countries said right from now on 2 kids per family and no kids before 18! :LOL:
I no most British now days would struggle with the later one .  :LOL:
 

JoshW

Well-known member
Down and beyond said:
I no very little about this have always heard about it but never followed it so a interesting read !

Is their really a solution though ? Would it be for a single country the solution as law/government brought in .

or a worldwide joint solution  where all countries said right from now on 2 kids per family and no kids before 18! :LOL:
I no most British now days would struggle with the later one .  :LOL:

If you read pwholes comment above yours, you?ll get a good summary of the situation.

The problem with sticking in controls over number of children is that you end up treating the symptom rather than actually looking at the root cause. You need to see the reasons why developing countries populations are increasing and look to solve that, otherwise you?ll make their situation worse.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
This is a good one to start, though it's by no means a 'proof', just a very convincing argument - and it's an easy read too - one evening if you get stuck in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factfulness:_Ten_Reasons_We%27re_Wrong_About_the_World_%E2%80%93_and_Why_Things_Are_Better_Than_You_Think

The designer, mathematician and (possibly) philosopher R. Buckminster Fuller spent decades arguing that the world was in a much better state than it thinks it is - his book Critical Path is stunning in its simplicity - I would argue some of his contentions have since been 'proven'. He also came up with the best, most accurate map of the world, ever - I have the A0 satellite version of this on the wall above my monitor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymaxion_map

And here's why it's better in so many ways than other map projections:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymaxion_map#/media/File:World_map_of_prehistoric_human_migrations.jpg

 

Brains

Well-known member
More than words...
 

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