Daily Mail

[TheBitterEnd]

but he did have the hypocritical hallmarks of a true far left wing intellectual - his opposition to the war in Vietnam for example didn't stop him taking presumably lucrative jobs in US universities.

Why should your opposition to the Vietnam War stop you taking a job in the US? There are lots of things the UK governments (over the last 40 years) has done that I strongly object to, but that doesn't mean I have to leave the country.

This part of this debate, it seems to me, goes to the heart of it. Otto von Bismark said "politics is the art of the possible" - essentially, you have to compromise to get things done. Some people are horrified that we might negotiate with al-qaeda (or a few decades ago with Sinn Fein) but sometimes engagement is the only way forward, however much that compromises your morals and ethics.

We are a small group with little clout and are sometimes regarded as a bit weird. We need all the positive PR we can get. Just suppose the media decided to start a campaign against cavers...

 

[david3392]

What is the Barbra Streisand effect? This is a genuine question; I'm not being facetious.

The Streisand effect is well dcoumented on wikipedia - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Cheers,
complex

Thank you Complex.

 

[Tony_B]

We are a small group with little clout and are sometimes regarded as a bit weird. We need all the positive PR we can get. Just suppose the media decided to start a campaign against cavers...

This was exactly the point of my earlier post.

Every few years there is a spate of rescues of climbers and walkers from the Scottish Highlands. When this happens some (usually Tory) MP pops up and says that rescuees should be made to pay, that climbers and walkers should have insurance, and so on. The sort of nonsense that plays well amongst Daily Mail readers. Now imagine if there were a similar spate of cave rescues. It would be easy to generate headlines on this - because caving can be readily linked to fears that many people experience (the dark, confined spaces, rising water...). Cavers would be easy targets and there would be little public sympathy. (Anyone remember The Sun's front-page headline on the day after that unfortunate lad died in Manchester Hole? It was two words: HELL HOLE.)

Every Daily Mail reader/browser that comes across caving pics like those featured recently is at least one more person with the potential to realize that there is more to our sport than grovelling around in little holes and putting brave rescuers' lives at risk.

 

[crickleymal]

We are a small group with little clout and are sometimes regarded as a bit weird.

I take great pride in being regarded by my neighbours as quite a bit weird 

 

[Bottlebank]

Every Daily Mail reader/browser that comes across caving pics like those featured recently is at least one more person with the potential to realize that there is more to our sport than grovelling around in little holes and putting brave rescuers' lives at risk.

That's a really good point, I noticed a big change in attitudes, for example when the Three Counties breakthrough hit the press, and Titan, the comments shifted from the "you must be a bit odd" variety and people have slowly become much more interested in what we do.

 

[Antwan]

Tis the Season

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/452493/Climber-who-scaled-Snowdon-peak-naked-branded-stupid-and-irresponsible#.Us1VgmKpak0.facebook



Haven't checked if its made it to the mail...

 

[Laurie]

This one did  : ......
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2534007/Woman-rushed-hospital-painful-THREE-HOUR-orgasm.html

 

[Laurie]

Oooops!  Double post.  :-[

 

[SpeleoTrog]

I don't often agree with anyone at the DM, especially Littlejohn. But every now and then, there's an exception. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2536869/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Duggan-gangster-not-Nelson-Mandela.html#article-2536869

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Laurie]

One paper does outstrip the Mail.....

 

[ChrisJC]

I don't often agree with anyone at the DM, especially Littlejohn. But every now and then, there's an exception. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2536869/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Duggan-gangster-not-Nelson-Mandela.html#article-2536869

We can't allow that, because it doesn't support the lefty censorship perspective.

Chris.

 

[graham]

I don't often agree with anyone at the DM, especially Littlejohn. But every now and then, there's an exception. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2536869/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Duggan-gangster-not-Nelson-Mandela.html#article-2536869

We can't allow that, because it doesn't support the lefty censorship perspective.

Chris.

And there's me thinking it was David Cameron that was censoring the internet in the UK.  :

 

[Hughie]

I don't often agree with anyone at the DM, especially Littlejohn. But every now and then, there's an exception. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2536869/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Duggan-gangster-not-Nelson-Mandela.html#article-2536869

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Interesting. Littlejohn sums it up really well.

 

[Hughie]

I don't often agree with anyone at the DM, especially Littlejohn. But every now and then, there's an exception. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2536869/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Duggan-gangster-not-Nelson-Mandela.html#article-2536869

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Interesting. Littlejohn sums it up really well.

Btw, Graham - your link doesn't seem to work. More disingenuous bullshine? Guardian and DM differ only in political biasing, perhaps the guardian is written in an eloquent manner. Just as sparing with the truth, though.

 

[grahams]

I don't often agree with anyone at the DM, especially Littlejohn. But every now and then, there's an exception. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2536869/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Duggan-gangster-not-Nelson-Mandela.html#article-2536869

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Interesting. Littlejohn sums it up really well.

Btw, Graham - your link doesn't seem to work. More disingenuous bullshine? Guardian and DM differ only in political biasing, perhaps the guardian is written in an eloquent manner. Just as sparing with the truth, though.

The 'quality' newspapers all contain the same set of big stories and usually have fairly similar spins on them despite their supposed L/R bias. The real villain is the British Brainwashing Corporation, the bunch of PC lefties that will not broadcast any criticism of the EU because they get a dollop of (our) easy money from them. This organ of 'free speech' doesn't even provide access to www.bbc.com to the people who pay for its content (us) unless you go via a foreign proxy. The sooner the BBC is privatised the better.

 

[graham]

Btw, Graham - your link doesn't seem to work. More disingenuous bullshine? Guardian and DM differ only in political biasing, perhaps the guardian is written in an eloquent manner. Just as sparing with the truth, though.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/03/david-cameron-internet-pr0n-filter-censorship-creep

Ok it doesn't work because this site changes the word p o r n in the link to  p r 0 n.

That is neither my fault nor the Grauniad's It's all down to someone else censoring the internet. 

 

[tony from suffolk]

The 'quality' newspapers all contain the same set of big stories and usually have fairly similar spins on them despite their supposed L/R bias. The real villain is the British Brainwashing Corporation, the bunch of PC lefties that will not broadcast any criticism of the EU because they get a dollop of (our) easy money from them. This organ of 'free speech' doesn't even provide access to www.bbc.com to the people who pay for its content (us) unless you go via a foreign proxy. The sooner the BBC is privatised the better.

It's amusing that left-wingers believe the Beeb has right-wing bias and vice versa. In truth, the BBC has a remarkably balanced perspective, and God help us all if it should ever become privatised! (Please tell me you're joking)

 

[Blakethwaite]

The sooner the BBC is privatised the better.

Hmm, at a fleeting glance on the four main BBC channels tonight there's The Golden Age of Steam (trains), This World (about the tea trail in Africa), Operation Grand Canyon (about... well, as it says on the tin..  but admittedly with Dan 'Dullard' Snow), Timeshift (about Sherlock Holmes) or the snooker or football & likely other stuff of interest.

On the four main ITV channels there's Dancing on Ice, All-Star Family Fortunes, You've Been Framed, The Maguluf Weekender, Birds of a frigging Feather, Piers Morgan & absolutely nothing that will provide any sort of intellectual nutrition whatsoever.

Sky will just be showing a load of formulaic, well-packaged but vacuous US shite.

Discovery will have a 60 minute documentary about somebody moving something from one place to another of which 30 minutes will be taken up by ad breaks and 15 minutes by recapping what has happened in the previous 15 minutes...

Love the BBC personally, its one of the few things we have that's better than anybody else's.

 

[TheBitterEnd]

its one of the few things we have that's better than anybody else's.

Sorry but this came immediately to mind

Reg:
    (sharply) Well yes obviously the roads... the roads go without saying. But apart from the aqueduct, the sanitation and the roads...
Another Masked Activist:
    Irrigation...
Other Masked Voices:
    Medicine... Education... Health...
Reg:
    Yes... all right, fair enough...
Activist Near Front:
    And the wine...
Omnes:
    Oh yes! True!
Francis:
    Yeah. That's something we'd really miss if the Romans left, Reg.
Masked Activist at Back:
    Public baths!
Stan:
    And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now.
Francis:
    Yes, they certainly know how to keep order... (general nodding)... let's face it, they're the only ones who could in a place like this.

    (more general murmurs of agreement)
Reg:
    All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
Xerxes:
    Brought peace!
Reg:
    (very angry, he's not having a good meeting at all) What!? Oh... (scornfully) Peace, yes... shut up!

 

[graham]

The 'quality' newspapers all contain the same set of big stories and usually have fairly similar spins on them despite their supposed L/R bias. The real villain is the British Brainwashing Corporation, the bunch of PC lefties that will not broadcast any criticism of the EU because they get a dollop of (our) easy money from them. This organ of 'free speech' doesn't even provide access to www.bbc.com to the people who pay for its content (us) unless you go via a foreign proxy. The sooner the BBC is privatised the better.

It's amusing that left-wingers believe the Beeb has right-wing bias and vice versa. In truth, the BBC has a remarkably balanced perspective, and God help us all if it should ever become privatised! (Please tell me you're joking)y

Doubt he is, regardless of any political bias, real or imagined, rightists hate the Beeb because it is publically owned and run. They prefer having their news fed to them by the likes of Murdoch & Dacre - for profit.