Ladders

[AMW]

I agree ladders are a useful tool in caving, small pitches or short awkward pitches are an area I use them in. Laders are still very much part of caving and I see no reason they will stop being part of it.
Andrew.

 

[Dave H]

Juniper Gulf anyone?

Been there, done it, don't have enough ladders any more! 
(Student trip in the mid 1980's) IIRC it was the life-lining that was the problem.

Rift Pot near Marble Steps is another biggy I've done a few times on ladder (again life-lining was a problem)

I don't tend to use ladders on pitches where you need more than two any more.

I've carried a ladder quite a few times for pitches after SRT ones. It's definitely horses-for-courses.

I've only been on the piano wire  variety of homemade and it put me off ever trying to build any myself.

If you're tempted by second hand;
Inspect the wires as they leave the last rung. In my experience this tends to be the point of most corrosion and the first rung to slip (not helped by the rolling method where the links are joined around the roll).
Also check the eyelets that the links connect to - I've seen the metal loop fall out, and use without would strain the wires more.

 

[dl]

All, many thanks for the info.

We used to make our own but more recently have purchased them off the shelf.  The reason for my query is that the last lot that we bought used very thin wire that was prone to damage and they haven't lasted long at all 





 

 

[Johnny]

http://www.expe.fr/ex_ray_murs_escalade.php

You could give Expe a try, the prices look the same in euro as they cost in pounds here but I dont know how much it costs to ship them, its all in French!

And ladders are fantastic, its SRT that's the devils work!

 

[dl]

Johnny,

Cheers, I tried Expe last year and they didn't have any in stock and were unsure when more would appear.  It appears you can get stainless wire for the same price as the usual stuff.

(Not sure if I wanted to ignite the ladders vs SRT debate (again) but in the context that these will be used SRT is not practical.)

 

[whitelackington]

Can you buy maypoles 
off the shelf?

 

[graham]

yes

 

[MSD]

The most ambitious ladder trip I ever did was Dale Head Pot. Four of us made it to the bottom, with several others staged as lifeliners part way down. Great trip requiring excellent teamwork.

Mark

 

[cap n chris]

Can you buy maypoles 
off the shelf?

The question is whether they keep them stored on an exceptionally high and wide shelf in the Maypole shop, perhaps so high that the shop keeper has to use a Maypole to reach them.

I'll get me coat.

 

[Rachel]

Can you buy maypoles 
off the shelf?

The question is whether they keep them stored on an exceptionally high and wide shelf in the Maypole shop, perhaps so high that the shop keeper has to use a Maypole to reach them.

I'll get me coat.

Can't you liberate one from the village green?

 

[kay]

Ooh no! Someone did that about 10 years ago, the village from which it was liberated placed the blame on the neighbouring village and all hell was let loose. You don't want to go stirring up that sort of trouble.

 

[ken]

We're currently in the market for a couple of caving ladders.

Does anyone have any recommendations re: price / performance of what's available today ?

I don't know the exchange rate at the moment, but try www.speleo-concepts.com / hardware/leitern      (not a link,just an adde) I was thinking of making them and after getting the prices for the wire, clamps,rungs and such and figuring about 2 hours of work for a 5 meter ladder....... i would have saved an unbelievable 30 euros.

 

[ttxela]

Not being able to afford to buy one I decided to have a bash at making my own ladder, I used the CPC instructions here that Peter pointed me towards;
http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/arb/cpc/handbook95.html#ladders] [url]http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/arb/cpc/handbook95.html#ladders [/url]

Some aluminium tube was cut to length.

162mm each as suggested by CPC

The ends were finished off with a file

Then I bought some wire rope

My father made a jig for drilling the rungs on his lathe

Then I made a jig out of wood for spacing the rungs

My youngest donated some plasticene to form plugs for the rungs

I began threading the rungs onto the wire

The most difficult part is that the ends soon fray and it?s necessary to keep having the ends trimmed

Eventually enough rungs were threaded to fill the jig

Some old bits of alloy angle were drilled and screwed to make clamps to hold the rungs in position

The wires were pulled taut and clamped with wolf clamps and pins inserted into the wire with pliers

Then polyester resin added to secure the rungs

The first section was complete

The process was then repeated a few times along with much cursing and re-trimming of the wire ends, then I got the local ropeworks to crimp in thimbles to the ends.

I bought a spreader and a couple of maillons

Then carried out a test using a handy child initially then having a go myself

I?ve since rigged it from the fire escape and got the heaviest lads on site to give it a go, one rung did slip slightly but when this was drilled out the resin had not flowed properly round the wire. It?s been re-made and tried again with no problems.

 

[george]

Wow - you're dedicated!

 

[graham]

There is a whole chapter on different ways of making ladders in the old CRG "Manual of Caving Techniques" book, but the only two methods that ever caught on were the "pin and araldite method" that ttexla describes and the "crimped ferrule" method that we used to use. It must be 25 years since we've made our own ladders, though.

Ours was quicker, I think. When working efficiently we could make a 25' ladder in about 15 minutes - not including the ends which we had finished professionally, though using C-links that we had made ourselves first.

 

[ttxela]

Wow - you're dedicated!

Nah, just too tight to buy one, have you seen the price?

 

[Peter Burgess]

And this is the condensed version of the story! The WCMS forum has been treated to the full-length version of this epic for much of this year. We are looking forward to the "show and tell" session after the AGM!

 

[ttxela]

There is a whole chapter on different ways of making ladders in the old CRG "Manual of Caving Techniques" book, but the only two methods that ever caught on were the "pin and araldite method" that ttexla describes and the "crimped ferrule" method that we used to use. It must be 25 years since we've made our own ladders, though.

Ours was quicker, I think. When working efficiently we could make a 25' ladder in about 15 minutes - not including the ends which we had finished professionally, though using C-links that we had made ourselves first.

As I understand it the ferrule method requires some investment in special dies and presses. The pin and resin method I didn't need to buy any special tools for, although I did get the ropeworks to trim the wires and add the thimbles.

15 minutes is impressive, I took over a year but mainly because it was done at odd moments between other stuff, probably about 5 hours actual time including making the jigs.

 

[george]

I have seen the price, and so i was particularly pleased when a well known public school in North Yorkshire donated 3 to our centre They also gave us 18 FX2 lamps, batteries and chargers but I've not managed to get them to last more than a few minutes
Still, can't complain!

 

[george]

Sorry - just realised how smug that sounds. I'll go and hang my head in shame.