I think that it is owned either by the freeholders of Grassington or by the gateholders of the moor. The Duke of Devonshire tried to sell it about 20 years ago, and Keith Lockyer et alia took him to court to show that he did not actually have ownership.Pitlamp said:Langcliffe - you're pretty much on the spot aren't you? Can you advise about land ownership? Or investigate?
My understanding is that the caverns were originally accessed from Old Turf Pits at a depth of about 80 m, along about 60 m of level. The levels were driven through limestone so stand a chance of being intact, but the shaft is now totally run in. The mine was abandoned in 1869.Pitlamp said:I think it's important that Has anyone got any other ideas for dig sites to suggest?
Hasbeen caver said:Inputting the grid reference given further up the thread into the "Get me a map" facility on the OS website indicates that it is this area of mineworkings which is now being discussed.
In my defence, I would like to point out that I said it was the Duke of Devonshire.Hasbeen caver said:Interestingly my friend explained on the day that the ownership of that area was contentious, and that there had been a court case involving the Duke of Westminster (as Langcliffe said).
langcliffe said:In my defence, I would like to point out that I said it was the Duke of Devonshire.Hasbeen caver said:Interestingly my friend explained on the day that the ownership of that area was contentious, and that there had been a court case involving the Duke of Westminster (as Langcliffe said).
Not really - it was built in the 1980s. It is on the current edition.Hasbeen caver said:And given just how prominent the linking track is (as very clearly shown on the google map) does anyone else find it bizarre that it is missing completely from my 1988 1.25,000 Yorkshire Dales South OS map? (not checked whether it appears on the current edition). It certainly seemed more than a little odd to me!
The industrial landscape is why it is a scheduled monument (National Monument 31331). They want to preserve the industrial archaeology, not for it to be torn asunder by people.Hasbeen caver said:Finally, given that the whole area around the Old Turf Pits is very much a post industrial landscape, with old spoil heaps and roadways everywhere, then surely some of the arguments which might discourage digging cavers from heaping the arisings from a surface dig within pristine countryside, might not apply here?
langcliffe said:Not really - it was built in the 1980s. It is on the current edition.Hasbeen caver said:And given just how prominent the linking track is (as very clearly shown on the google map) does anyone else find it bizarre that it is missing completely from my 1988 1.25,000 Yorkshire Dales South OS map? (not checked whether it appears on the current edition). It certainly seemed more than a little odd to me!
langcliffe said:The industrial landscape is why it is a scheduled monument (National Monument 31331). They want to preserve the industrial archaeology, not for it to be torn asunder by people.Hasbeen caver said:Finally, given that the whole area around the Old Turf Pits is very much a post industrial landscape, with old spoil heaps and roadways everywhere, then surely some of the arguments which might discourage digging cavers from heaping the arisings from a surface dig within pristine countryside, might not apply here?
You may well be right, but I refer you to the map on page 74 of Mike Gill's monograph "The Grassington Mines", and the NGR reference given for Old Turf Pits and others in British Mining No. 13 "The Mines of Grassington Moor". According to those references, my positions for the three shafts are correct.braveduck said:Langcliff if you look at cave mappers plan of the lost caverns.
Your plan of Old Turf Pits puts it to far North.
I think it is the shaft SW of the Left hand track.
That fits really well with plans I have,because the is an X cut to the rise in to the caverns.
langcliffe said:In my defence, I would like to point out that I said it was the Duke of Devonshire.Hasbeen caver said:Interestingly my friend explained on the day that the ownership of that area was contentious, and that there had been a court case involving the Duke of Westminster (as Langcliffe said).