New Cave in Ystradfellte ?
- Thread starter Chris Crowley
- Start date
Alkapton
Member
Not being one to stick up for people who upset landownders, I will say this... The person who stole the gate is known (but not by me). The time the gate was stolen is known because people were in the cave while it was being stolen. It definately was not NigR because people know exactly where he was at the time (nowhere near).
Apart from that thank you whoever stole the gate for ensuring nobody will ever have access to that cave again - you arsehole.
Apart from that thank you whoever stole the gate for ensuring nobody will ever have access to that cave again - you arsehole.
Peter Burgess
New member
Thank you, Rhys, for the statement from Elsie. I will be adding it to our next Newsletter.
tony from suffolk
Well-known member
I'm sure you'll get lots of grovelling apologies now Nigel.
Rhys
Moderator
Although I don't condone the tearing off of a cave gate, It would've been nice to hear something official from the diggers/explorers before this happened. This thread was started in early August, yet there was nothing from the explorers 'til early November.
If it's secret, keep it secret. If word gets out then release some basic details about what's been found; How many kilometres? Stream passage? Fossil passage? Cave name? An assurance that access would be arranged for all at a later date might have helped and perhaps people might've been more patient and understanding. There's nothing more annoying than these not-so-secret private caves with access limited to a small group.
Rhys
If it's secret, keep it secret. If word gets out then release some basic details about what's been found; How many kilometres? Stream passage? Fossil passage? Cave name? An assurance that access would be arranged for all at a later date might have helped and perhaps people might've been more patient and understanding. There's nothing more annoying than these not-so-secret private caves with access limited to a small group.
Rhys
droid
Active member
Very true Rhys.
But the non-secret 'secret dig' has been around since I started caving 30 years ago. If the arrangement with the landowner was that access was to be restricted to 'known people' then that's it really. It's the landowner's perogative. It may have been possible to extend the access later on, but that option seems now to have gone for the forseeable future.
Not everybody lives on forums.
Fact is that the cave's now closed to everyone. Who's won in this sorry saga? Not the general caving community that's for sure. For sure it's no skin off the landowners' nose.
But the non-secret 'secret dig' has been around since I started caving 30 years ago. If the arrangement with the landowner was that access was to be restricted to 'known people' then that's it really. It's the landowner's perogative. It may have been possible to extend the access later on, but that option seems now to have gone for the forseeable future.
Not everybody lives on forums.
Fact is that the cave's now closed to everyone. Who's won in this sorry saga? Not the general caving community that's for sure. For sure it's no skin off the landowners' nose.
it annoys me the assumption to a lot of people that it must be 'secret' if it isn't being discussed on forums - lots of people have a life outside of the internet, so not everything makes it to the web. The one thing i really do like about mendip is we have the 'centre of the universe' where people from most mendip clubs tend to hang out at sometimes, so information is easier disseminated face to face in there. I'm sure there are plenty of mendip 'secret digs' and even breakthroughs that are not know in the general 'internet' world, but are no secret to mendip cavers!droid said:
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
Sorry, it's against the landowner's wishes
Ship-badger
Member
RobinGriffiths said:Sorry, it's against the landowner's wishes
Well as the landowner has now said that nobody can ever visit the cave, who gives a toss what he wishes.
graham
New member
droid said:Ship-badger said:RobinGriffiths said:Sorry, it's against the landowner's wishes
Well as the landowner has now said that nobody can ever visit the cave, who gives a toss what he wishes.
Which of course is exactly the attitude that lost us the cave in the first place
And will keep us out of it for the foreseeable future. Not only that but I can just about guarantee that other landowners read this forum (I know for certain that they do on Mendip) and comments like that will be noted. Fortunately not all of us think like that.
crickleymal
New member
Ship-badger said:RobinGriffiths said:Sorry, it's against the landowner's wishes
Well as the landowner has now said that nobody can ever visit the cave, who gives a toss what he wishes.
Ah! The voice of reason strikes again :
paul
Moderator
Ship-badger said:RobinGriffiths said:Sorry, it's against the landowner's wishes
Well as the landowner has now said that nobody can ever visit the cave, who gives a toss what he wishes.
Besides what has already been said, there are many examples where a Landowner has decided to withdraw access for one reason or another and then respectful negotiation had seen the access granted again.
Your attitude, Ship-badger, certaibly doesn't help matters.
Brains
Well-known member
Sounds like you are in a bit ocf a pickle!
If the landowners wishes were so stringent and secretive makes you think he doesnt want to negotiate or have cavers on his land any way, so had some access been granted how long till the wind changed and access was revoked?
Shame a gate was thought to be needed at all in the first place, it couldnt have been removed if it wasnt there!
It seems gates, like rules, are to be broken. Rules can be changed (unilaterally or by agreement) to the benefit of all but a gate will always be a blot on the landscape?!
Oh well, roll on the next generation or two...
If the landowners wishes were so stringent and secretive makes you think he doesnt want to negotiate or have cavers on his land any way, so had some access been granted how long till the wind changed and access was revoked?
Shame a gate was thought to be needed at all in the first place, it couldnt have been removed if it wasnt there!
It seems gates, like rules, are to be broken. Rules can be changed (unilaterally or by agreement) to the benefit of all but a gate will always be a blot on the landscape?!
Oh well, roll on the next generation or two...