KMC - Roof Tunnel Pitch

Glenn

Glenn

Member
CNCC has been asked to "do something" about the tat at the top of Roof Tunnel pitch in KMC. We had a quick look yesterday and have decided to replace the current rope traverse with a 2M plastic coated galvanised steel cable, plus a further cable to provide a safe traverse to the obvious ledge.

The question is, how do "most" cavers on a pull through climb this pitch? I know that in an ideal world it would be rigged - but the fact that the tat is always being replaced suggests that a good proportion of cavers either free climb it, or prussik it.

So given that there will shortly be a safe traverse cable installed, should we rig the climb for SRT, or rig it with loops so that it can be more safely free climbed? The rope will be 11mm PMI, and if loops are utilised, the loops will be reinforced with hose.

On completion the installation will be accepted by CNCC as a fixed aid and subject to regular inspection and replacement as appropriate.

 
molerat

molerat

Member
I was meaning to get rid of that rope soon. It looks like I'll be beaten to it!

I always rig the pitch with ladder and lifeline before a pull through trip. I suspect most cavers rig it for SRT.
 
I

ianball11

Active member
Why not a fixed ladder?
The once I've been I just climbed it, though Id take a ladder to rig it if we were with beginners. 
Id rather there be nothing if Im honest.
 
Joe.Bones

Joe.Bones

Member
Usually pre rig it from the hangers in the roof, doesnt take long anyway. And gives you a chance of water levels if you are that way inclined. I have also free climbed it a few times. Why is the rope on those hangers anyway, surely it would get less damaged from the other hang on the oposite wall to the roof ?
 
Pitlamp

Pitlamp

Well-known member
Pre-rigging the Roof Tunnel pitch takes, what, 15 minutes underground before walking up the hill?

Do we really want to justify the installation of even more fixed aids to remove every little inconvenience to our pleasure trips? I'm not saying "don't" - I'm merely posing the question - but I hope I'm not the only active northern caver thinking along these lines.

(I'm most definitely NOT denigrating our volunteer CNCC officers by the way; in fact it speaks volumes about their efforts to get this sort of thing right that Glenn has taken the trouble to ask everyone's opinion first. Thanks Glenn; I have a pretty good idea just how hard you work for our benefit.)
 
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zaphod79

New member
Morley always send someone to pre-rig for SRT, but we have also used the Traverse, which we had a slight incident on last year in high water that was a close call.

I think unless something was permanent we would still send someone in to rig or check it, although I know in the past we have thown a rope over the bridge.
 
D

dunc

New member
Whilst I don't want to criticise the CNCC for trying to resolve an issue I can't see the point in all this money being 'wasted' on a fixed aid at this location (OK, might not be much but surely a better use can be found). As a few people have already suggested, it really takes no time at all to nip in and pre-rig a rope or ladder.

If we continue like this then we'll have fixed ropes on the through trips to save people the trouble of carrying the rope through themselves  :confused:

And I'm not having a go at fixed aids in general, I've used plenty in the past so can't complain but some seem a step too far. Given the level of usage that this 'aid' would take I would hazard a guess it would need very regular replacement..
 
Glenn

Glenn

Member
Many thanks for all the comments, which reflect my own approach - rig it first - we are all in agreement on that.

But. For as long as I can remember (I moved north in the mid '80's), there has been a rope in that corner of the pitch, presumably to aid the free climbing of the pitch. Given that CNCC has been asked to "do something about it", and the feedback received so far, what do we do?

We can either do nothing and the tat remains, or we can recognise that there is a need for some sort of fixed aid/rope and do it properly in a managed fashion.

The approach mentioned in my original post has negligible cost, but if the overall consensus is to do nothing, then that's what we will do.
 
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ianball11

Active member
If you don't mind me asking Glenn, who has asked the CNCC to do something?

If I could vote twice I'd vote twice for it all to be removed. (edit:  just left bolted to attach your own ladder or rope)

As a question, what do CRO think? Have they had a callout to rescue someone who has done the pull through but been stranded at the roof tunnel for not being able to get up?

 
graham

graham

New member
ianball11 said:
As a question, what do CRO think? Have they had a callout to rescue someone who has done the pull through but been stranded at the roof tunnel for not being able to get up?
Click to expand...

If that was the case then surely a fixed ladder in the Pit in Simpson's would be a good use of funds.  :-\
 
Alex

Alex

Well-known member
I certainly rig it, as I no longer trust the in-situ tat, as they say it don't take long and adds a little bit of variety to the day.
 
I

IanWalker

Active member
Glenn said:
CNCC has been asked to "do something" about the tat at the top of Roof Tunnel pitch in KMC. We had a quick look yesterday and have decided to replace the current rope traverse with a 2M plastic coated galvanised steel cable, plus a further cable to provide a safe traverse to the obvious ledge.

The question is, how do "most" cavers on a pull through climb this pitch? I know that in an ideal world it would be rigged - but the fact that the tat is always being replaced suggests that a good proportion of cavers either free climb it, or prussik it.

So given that there will shortly be a safe traverse cable installed, should we rig the climb for SRT, or rig it with loops so that it can be more safely free climbed? The rope will be 11mm PMI, and if loops are utilised, the loops will be reinforced with hose.

On completion the installation will be accepted by CNCC as a fixed aid and subject to regular inspection and replacement as appropriate.
Click to expand...
I would prefer there was no in situ rope, with the onus remaining on visiting cavers to install and remove their own equipment. If you want to do "something", then that something would be to remove the tat.

I usually pre-rig for SRT. Occasionally I don't bother knowing if necessary I can climb the corner with a life-line over the bridge.

If for whatever reason the choice is between crappy bit of tat and CNCC fixed aid, I would choose the latter. If there is a permanent CNCC fixed aid I would rather it is rigged for SRT (i.e. no footloops tied in).

Incidentally I would call climbing the walls 'free climbing' whether protected or not. Climbing only on a rope with footloops is more of a ladder climb.]

Hope this helps - and thanks for your efforts!
Ian.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Member
ianball11 said:
If you don't mind me asking Glenn, who has asked the CNCC to do something?
Click to expand...

I do not think it correct to name names here. The current rope/tat is damaged and the damage isolated with a knot. Someone has volunteered to replace the rope, and a second someone has volunteered a replacement rope. The second someone has supplied rope for this pitch many times in the past. It was this second someone that has asked CNCC, that since there was a "need" to have a rope on this pitch, could CNCC "do something" to improve on the current ad-hoc approach.
 
P

Pete Brookdale

New member
Rig it as the climb with fig 8's for clipping in and not for srt, that way it can be free climbed and have a belay for safety and those that would like to srt can rig a rope. Thats how it used to be etc, if the vote is to have no rope then all ropes from all systems should be removed so visiting parties can rig it themselves for the great achievement.
 
Alex

Alex

Well-known member
Would wonder how to do Cupcake with no ropes in-situ that would be an achievement! Some ropes are useful such as ones going up avens etc with no other way of getting though. It would be a pain to say maypole the pitch in Drenen to get to the time machine!
 
I

ianball11

Active member
Glenn said:
ianball11 said:
If you don't mind me asking Glenn, who has asked the CNCC to do something?
Click to expand...

I do not think it correct to name names here. The current rope/tat is damaged and the damage isolated with a knot. Someone has volunteered to replace the rope, and a second someone has volunteered a replacement rope. The second someone has supplied rope for this pitch many times in the past. It was this second someone that has asked CNCC, that since there was a "need" to have a rope on this pitch, could CNCC "do something" to improve on the current ad-hoc approach.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I asked as if it was the CRO asking the CNCC to do something then I'd look silly asking what the CRO think  ;)



 
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