I'm an avid cave photographer suddenly within a couple of hours reach of the Yorkshire Dales, but without any partners or much kit at the moment so can't be doing much requiring SRT.

I don't know the Dales well. Can anyone please recommend me any well decorated caves that are also easy? Feel free to private message me if you don't want suggestions on a public forum.

Many thanks.

C.

White scar, but permits required as show cave (and a swimming certificate lol)

From what I have seen in the Dales anything that is easily accessible and some that is not gets trashed rapidly. Taping seems to be a recent phenomenon and I would not advertise any caves that were easily accessible or well decorated. Recently in far reaches of Gaping Gill I was appalled to see formations splattered in mud which can only have deliberately placed there . I am sure it is only a tiny minority but it only takes a couple of imbeciles to cause extensive damage.  Therefore if anybody knows of something decent to photograph I suggest they PM the enquirer and then he might have something to photograph in the future as well.

mrodoc said:

From what I have seen in the Dales anything that is easily accessible and some that is not gets trashed rapidly. Taping seems to be a recent phenomenon and I would not advertise any caves that were easily accessible or well decorated. Recently in far reaches of Gaping Gill I was appalled to see formations splattered in mud which can only have deliberately placed there . I am sure it is only a tiny minority but it only takes a couple of imbeciles to cause extensive damage.  Therefore if anybody knows of something decent to photograph I suggest they PM the enquirer and then he might have something to photograph in the future as well.

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bograt said:

mrodoc said:

From what I have seen in the Dales anything that is easily accessible and some that is not gets trashed rapidly. Taping seems to be a recent phenomenon and I would not advertise any caves that were easily accessible or well decorated. Recently in far reaches of Gaping Gill I was appalled to see formations splattered in mud which can only have deliberately placed there . I am sure it is only a tiny minority but it only takes a couple of imbeciles to cause extensive damage.  Therefore if anybody knows of something decent to photograph I suggest they PM the enquirer and then he might have something to photograph in the future as well.

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Caves without pitches with great formations

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Ditto.

Gimlis Dream lasted about a month before it was trashed (30' pitch, before internet), that was one of the main reasons for the Derbyshire Diggers philosophy of not publicising before access controls could protect formations.

mrodoc said:

From what I have seen in the Dales anything that is easily accessible and some that is not gets trashed rapidly. Taping seems to be a recent phenomenon and I would not advertise any caves that were easily accessible or well decorated. Recently in far reaches of Gaping Gill I was appalled to see formations splattered in mud which can only have deliberately placed there . I am sure it is only a tiny minority but it only takes a couple of imbeciles to cause extensive damage.  Therefore if anybody knows of something decent to photograph I suggest they PM the enquirer and then he might have something to photograph in the future as well.

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Hands suitably slapped

Did try to modify (delete) but unable to - suggest that moderator removes if deemed appropriate.

Skyrmy said:

mrodoc said:

From what I have seen in the Dales anything that is easily accessible and some that is not gets trashed rapidly. Taping seems to be a recent phenomenon and I would not advertise any caves that were easily accessible or well decorated. Recently in far reaches of Gaping Gill I was appalled to see formations splattered in mud which can only have deliberately placed there . I am sure it is only a tiny minority but it only takes a couple of imbeciles to cause extensive damage.  Therefore if anybody knows of something decent to photograph I suggest they PM the enquirer and then he might have something to photograph in the future as well.

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Hands suitably slapped

Did try to modify (delete) but unable to - suggest that moderator removes if deemed appropriate.

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[gmod]Previous posting deleted as requested[/gmod]

Carlswark Cavern though in Derbyshire serves to illustrate some of the points high lighted here.

There's a passage there called stalactite Passage, When this passage was discovered it was pristine and beautiful with long curtains and stalactites, the discoverers took down the materials and cemented in a gate to prolong the preservation of this beautiful place, that same evening before the cement had even had time to dry another club went down and removed the gate.....

..... and quickly what would have been an easily accessible gem for generations of visitors to photograph etc was completely wrecked by souvenir hunters....

richardg said:

Carlswark Cavern though in Derbyshire serves to illustrate some of the points high lighted here.

There's a passage there called stalactite Passage, When this passage was discovered it was pristine and beautiful with long curtains and stalactites, the discoverers took down the materials and cemented in a gate to prolong the preservation of this beautiful place, that same evening before the cement had even had time to dry another club went down and removed the gate.....

..... and quickly what would have been an easily accessible gem for generations of visitors to photograph etc was completely wrecked by souvenir hunters....

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Gimlis Dream is part of the same system, I find now that cavers from other areas poo-poo the system because there's nothing to see. (There is, but I ain't going to tell them :)

bograt said:

Gimlis Dream lasted about a month before it was trashed (30' pitch, before internet), that was one of the main reasons for the Derbyshire Diggers philosophy of not publicising before access controls could protect formations.

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Access controls?  I can think of some Welsh and some Yorkshire cavers who would be apoplectic at the very thought.

graham said:

bograt said:

Gimlis Dream lasted about a month before it was trashed (30' pitch, before internet), that was one of the main reasons for the Derbyshire Diggers philosophy of not publicising before access controls could protect formations.

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Access controls?  I can think of some Welsh and some Yorkshire cavers who would be apoplectic at the very thought.

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Yeh, but have they ever spent two+ years digging their guts out to discover a forest of straws to find it trashed within a few weeks?

They would no doubt reply that 'education' is the solution.

My opinion is that the only 'education' that these cretins understand would come from the application of a size 8 boot to the scrotum.

droid said:

They would no doubt reply that 'education' is the solution.

My opinion is that the only 'education' that these cretins understand would come from the application of a size 8 boot to the scrotum.

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LOL, that would be my solution, teach 'em a lesson,  wouldn't it!

I find it disturbing that we have now recently had 2 threads along the lines of "Well decorated caves without pitches". Both new forum members and I wouldn't give the locations of anything to them. There are plenty of other things to photograph underground.

I would suggest they go along on some club trips so they can be supervised...

Oh, and one last point, the OP states they are within 2 hours of the Dales, that covers a very large area, including the Peak. I could get to the Dales inside 2 hours. This seems too similar to the recent 'Well decorated Peak caves without pitches' thread on here.

Beware, this could be the same person...

I would also add that an online guide to one site describes a route to view formations that seems designed to wreck em. I visited the site and discovered a safe viewing point elsewhere. No wonder we get damaged formations

droid said:

They would no doubt reply that 'education' is the solution.

My opinion is that the only 'education' that these cretins understand would come from the application of a size 8 boot to the scrotum.

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Education is certainly part of any solution but there are other ways to achieve conservation objectives apart from setting up gates and creating minefields of beaurocracy. I could give you an excellent example from the Dales (actually, if I reckon you're who I think you are we know each other and I suspect you're very familiar with the example I have in mind - you actually did me a big favour not long ago). The point is that obscurity is a big factor in how this example (which is very easily accessible but rarely visited) has been successfully dealt with. So I'll not quote it here.

But I doubt it's fair to refer to people who dislike the idea of gates and beaurocracy as "cretins". Gates may be part of your solution on Mendip in some cases but the Dales situation is very different and there are many examples of good practice quietly going on behind the scenes. I'm thinking here of cases where there's no access problems at all; by not flagging up the existence of these gems it's only experienced cavers who tend to come across them, often by accident. These are the types who really appreciate them and are unlikely to cause damage.

It's never easy but a carefully thought out solution to conservation concerns (specific to each case) is often successful without any need for cavers to feel access is being made awkward.

Sorry,  Pitlamp, but this is not really very helpful.  The dales are not that different from the other caving areas of the UK, and so saying that you have other, clever, better, ways of doing things without saying what they are is A) unhelpful and B) flies in the face of the call for more education.

999 careful well educated cavers taking care and respecting the cave will never compensate for the actions of one pillock. It's a fact of life we reluctantly need to accept that adding an inconvenience to a cave is the only practical way to reduce the risk of the one pillock doing what they do worst. It is also a fact we have to accept that even pillocks can follow access procedures to the letter and negate all the education and care the rest of us think important. If we can't eliminate the risk we should at the very least accept the efforts of those who try to reduce it using proven means.

graham said:

Sorry,  Pitlamp, but this is not really very helpful.  The dales are not that different from the other caving areas of the UK, and so saying that you have other, clever, better, ways of doing things without saying what they are is A) unhelpful and B) flies in the face of the call for more education.

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The problem is that if I elaborated here it would detract from their success. Mrodoc suggested that: "anything that is easily accessible . . . gets trashed rapidly". That is just not true I'm afraid. I could give many examples from the Dales but I'm unwilling to for obvious reasons.

Let's just say that in many situations the best security is obscurity.

I will describe one place though, without naming it directly. Two years ago I joined a couple of friends for a trip in a reasonable length cave within a certain popular Dales caving area. This cave is very well described in the literature and was explored as long ago as the 1960s. We were amazed by the delicate formations right next to where cavers pass, all of them in pristine condition. The original discoverers had documented their find well but had not flagged up the existence of these straws and helictites. It was a delight for us to "discover" this little gem, particularly as it's still in perfect condition. Yet there are no access restrictions and anyone can easily go there any time they like. The fact is that many generations of Dales cavers have enjoyed trips in there and have clearly left the place looking just like the first explorers found it.

None of this helps the original poster, who had a perfectly reasonable question. I think someone above suggested getting involved with a good club of experienced cavers; this is probably the best way to find what you're looking for.

Again, obscurity is not unique to the dales. I can think of examples in Ireland that are similar. They are in situations where neither control nor education were feasible objectives for the discoverers.

However, it didn't work for Easter Grotto and wouldn't have worked for St. Cuthbert's.  Now which of those two has been better conserved?