Caves without pitches with great formations?

[Blakethwaite]

I'd recommend the Earby

No, it's everybody else on this thread ranting & moaning, not him!  :tease:

 

[dunc]

I would agree with some that the OP has not helped his own cause. Having more than one identity on any forum is considered to be extremely unacceptable and usually leads to trouble of some sort. His stated intention of solo caving has not helped either. Just what sort of cave photography does he have in mind ? Perhaps therein lies a hint to his personality. But life includes all sorts and one must not rush to judgement.

And one must not rush to judgement and yet you appear to be doing so. The manner in which you reply appears to pour scorn on his personal method of caving/photography. From someone that posts large numbers of images (how many people on here complained about your methods?) and wants to see more people doing the same/getting involved in cave photography I'm rather surprised by this post.

I'm not saying I was the same but I recall a time when walking on my own was infinitely more preferable to being in a group. As I got 'older' I did join a walking group, despite being a miserable/recluse/all-sort I actually enjoyed it initially. As time went by and the group grew in size and bureaucracy increased (being a part of the RA) my interest waned. As a caver I find small groups more preferable to large club outings - it's the way I've always been. I'm not a social animal. I have soloed a few caves and will do again if circumstances dictate. Oh well, maybe even more members of this forum will view me with suspicion. Like I care..

Good grief!

This is one of the nicest, best mannered, genuinely helpful forums on the whole WWW. I've seen people get much more abuse than this over making a simple maths error, or even for asking a simple beginner's question on some forums. If the OP can't put up with a bit of challenge given the very real issues at stake then tough titty.

This is the only forum I visit apart from a very restricted-caving-club-forum, so have no knowledge of the wider world of forums. Good god I have a life away from the internet, kill me now and consign my body to an incinerator fuelling some forum-server. Just because someone posts on a single forum doesn't mean they spend a large amount of time online/on multiple other forums and know about forum etiquette etc. And I think you'll find he has written a fair amount about himself and his intentions, so that kind of covers the challenge aspect...

And as far as this forum goes; I've been tempted to leave because of the numerous negative/know-it-all responses but stuck around because it does have its uses/I like a challenge/and my previous posts won't be deleted (I'd love to have the time and money to challenge this position).

 

[Peter Burgess]

It's worth remembering that it isn't forums that are welcoming or hostile. It's individual people. There are lots of friendly receptive people here, but there are also some presumptive and arrogant people here too. It's the same in most places probably.

 

[martinm]

I have solo caved too, on numerous occasions, but only in places where I knew should be able to get out in case of an accident.

I am in contact with the OP and the NT relating to an upcoming trip. The NT have asked me for advice. The OP seems reluctant to going caving with another human being. I am awaiting the NT reply, but as I've said before am quite happy to take them round the relevant cave as I have monitoring and surveying work to do elsewhere in the cave. (They will almost be solo caving.)

And btw, this is not a "negative/know-it-all response", just fact. I would get them to the end of Elderbush too if they weren't so insistent on not relating to other people. I have the gear, the local knowledge, I would help them...

 

[dunc]

I am in contact with the OP and the NT relating to an upcoming trip. The NT have asked me for advice.

Is this an upcoming trip by the OP perchance? Was you or the NT aware of the OPs status (planned solo venture) prior to this persons post? How many times in the past have you and the NT consulted on a planned trip and if so, why? Is it your or NT policy to deny access to solo cavers?

Just for fact: I have no idea where this planned trip is, nor do I know the OP, nor have any local knowledge or dealing with NT access etc.. Also, Mel, my negative/know comment was not aimed at you, even though you chose to respond to it. What you have done is provide yet another response that assumes everyone is sociable and wanting company. Maybe you are that kind of person, maybe many others are, but that doesn't mean everyone is..

 

[shanma]

Thank you for your replies folks. I have read and digested everything that has been said. If possible I'd like to draw something of a line under all this now, and hopefully I'll continue to use this forum in a useful and constructive way in the future.

 

[martinm]

Is this an upcoming trip by the OP perchance? Is it your or NT policy to deny access to solo cavers?

Yes dunc. No, the NT are great about access solo or otherwise, but they have a duty to protect the environment on their land, as I do. They have asked me my opinion on the OP and I have told them about what's occurred on here and that I'd be happy to take them round either of the Manifold caves they have inquired about and let them get on with their photography.  However, have just received the following PM off the OP:-

"Thanks. I contacted Paul Milner earlier today to make him aware of all this. If it is going to be a problem for me to visit the cave alone, I'd probably just rather withdraw my request to visit to be honest. I like to be able to take a considerable amount of time taking photos and perfecting shutter speeds etc, and especially after all this I think I'd be pretty uncomfortable going with someone else. I regret taking up so much of your time already."

I replied to the OP:- "No you didn't, you contacted Paul Mortimer (not Milner), then he contacted me. Sorry u r so uncomfortable with the human race, esp given the fact you apparently have a partner!"

I have replied to the NT saying:- " I'm happy to show him round so he can take photos." 

This person doesn't appear to be able to use OS maps, web search engines or even remember the people he's emailed.

I'm outta here now, too much time wasted on this again. Like other people, I have considered stopping using this forum, but there are some very knowledgeable people on here who can provide good advice on stuff.

Now back to uploading cave monitoring forms for the NT b4 bedsies...

(Oh, and just in case there are any problems with this person, I have their name, blog page url, facebook page url and email address. Hopefully this person is genuine, just needs to make some friends, lol. )

 

[shanma]

I'm making this my last reply.

My mistake for calling him Paul Mortimer instead of Milner, I've had a long day.
I am more than capable of using OS Maps, having been living in the Highlands for the last five years climbing, hillwalking, hillrunning and taking photos several times each week, all over the Highlands and Islands, in summer and winter, day and night.

If it appears I've been unable to locate basic information online about how to find cave entrances, this isn't the case, nor is it the case that I can't find them from grid references. My reason for asking directions to some cave entrances is that is I'm often out at dawn or dusk or even in the dark (I work odd hours) in order to fit in a quick visit to a cave before or after a shift, and sometimes directions are going to get me to the more hidden entrances when they might be difficult to locate just with a grid reference.

I see nothing wrong with preferring going caving, climbing etc by myself. It's pretty much the way i've always done it. Each to their own. I'm also sure people can understand why I'd be uncomfortable going caving with people who have been active on this thread, after all that has been said.

For the record, I don't mind what I just wrote to mmilner being shared here, but I don't particularly like private messages being shared publically.

 

[ianball11]

Cheerio shanma, enjoy your caving.

 

[zomjon]

I'm a little confused, what ever the ins and outs of shanma and his various aliases, when did it become acceptable for m milner to publish a private conversation for all and sundry to read, that just seems wrong!

 

[mr conners]

Worms and can again Jon.

Remember what happened last time? 

 

[martinm]

I'm a little confused, what ever the ins and outs of shanma and his various aliases, when did it become acceptable for m milner to publish a private conversation for all and sundry to read, that just seems wrong!

There is loads of his 'private conversation' I haven't shared. Most of it (his private conversation with me) tbh he's already duplicated on here already for public consumption, so he has done it himself before waiting for me to reply to him!

I have had the reply from the NT and they are suggesting that I take him round the caves so I can do monitoring and surveying of some bits not on the survey at the same time, which Shanma has already said he won't do, so that's the end of that then. Next...

Oh yes, Deepdale, sigh...