Author Topic: Mystery Photo of Puttrell  (Read 3880 times)

Offline paul

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2020, 07:51:51 pm »


Here are Mary's and AR's photos together:
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline yrammy

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2020, 10:27:09 am »
Interesting. Has the Puttrell photo been printed the wrong way round?

Offline paul

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2020, 12:14:28 pm »
That could be the answer...
I'm not a complete idiot: some parts are missing!

Offline AR

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2020, 12:20:45 pm »
Okay, looks like I need to go back and take a snap from the other side, and maybe pressgang a passing walker in to act as a model!
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline pwhole

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2020, 12:38:56 pm »
Hahah - I never thought we'd have to recreate another Puttrell photo  ;)

Offline Rob

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2020, 12:44:18 pm »
Interesting. Has the Puttrell photo been printed the wrong way round?
I'd guess not. Totally different roof.
The end is where we start....

Offline pwhole

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2020, 01:10:30 pm »
To be honest the roof looks so jagged I can't see that being naturally weathered - it looks like it's been blasted open in a working quarry - at least the top section does. Maybe it was originally a much lower entrance that rose inside and quarrying then removed the low part?

Offline SamT

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2020, 09:13:04 pm »
Interesting. Has the Puttrell photo been printed the wrong way round?

That was my thought exactly.

Offline AR

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2020, 10:11:58 pm »
Quite possible off an old-fashioned negative, it could well have been a glass plate if the photographer was Frank Brindley! I'm intending to go back tomorrow morning, this time with a copy of the reversed image and I'll get a snap from the other side. Might also be worth getting a better scan of the photo and tweaking  brightness/contrast to see the roof behind Putterell better?
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline yrammy

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2020, 08:37:56 am »
The photo is from Picture Sheffield the county archive online site.  I guess we could ask them to do a better scan of the original - Jenny P what do you think?

Offline SamT

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2020, 10:04:59 am »
Interesting. Has the Puttrell photo been printed the wrong way round?
I'd guess not. Totally different roof.

Cave entrance roofs can alter shape occasionally


Offline AR

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2020, 11:02:53 am »
Just got back from Deepdale and I've had a good look from the other side - the photo doesn't match Thirst House Cave from that side either, the features on the original photo don't match very well and more tellingly, it's a much smaller entrance than Thirst House - Jim Putterell was not 4m tall! I'll sort out my photos from today later and put them up as a contrast.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline AR

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2020, 09:16:46 pm »
Here's a shot from this morning. Mary, I'd suggest getting in touch with the DPC and asking them if their log books contain any more detail about the visit to Deepdale, in particular did they go to any of the quarries in the area.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline pwhole

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2020, 10:28:15 pm »
Enlarged and enhanced as best I can - it's pretty crap. But it's definitely Brindley, it's definitely a glass plate (the emulsion's peeling off it) and it's definitely printed the right way round. His info is just visible at bottom right - Abbeydale Road, which is where he lived for a while - I think he had a darkroom there too. Sadly no location for the cave! The cracks in that roof suggest it's recently been blasted to me. It is possible this trip is mentioned in Puttrell's caving scrapbooks, which are in Sheffield Reference Library on microfiche. If I can get time (and if the place is open) I can try and find this.

But it would we well worth checking with Geoff at DPC first as they may have the original in their big photo album. I got to look through it once - sigh ;)

Offline mikem

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2020, 11:01:54 pm »

Offline pwhole

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2020, 01:13:46 am »
I think the guy with the candle might be Fred Botterill - not that it helps much with this problem.

Offline Jenny P

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2020, 10:38:34 am »
The photo is from Picture Sheffield the county archive online site.  I guess we could ask them to do a better scan of the original - Jenny P what do you think?

I thought about this but it appears that if you want a better copy of the photo than the rather poor scan on the Picture Sheffield you have to pay for it.  I think the price for an A4 copy was in excess of £10 plus postage so it wasn't worth it since what we were trying to do was to identify the site.

On the other hand, if Geof at DPC is able to provide a high quality scan, then we can maybe use that to cmpare sites.

Offline mikem

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2020, 11:26:08 am »

Offline Fulk

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2020, 11:35:53 am »
I inserted 'Puttrell in a cave' into my search engine and it came up with this book on Amazon. If anybody has access to a copy, there my be a clue inside:


Offline phizz4

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2020, 12:01:56 pm »

Offline mikem

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2020, 12:17:51 pm »
Hasn't changed since then. Struggling to find pictures of the other entrances in Deepdale though.

Thirst House is apparently a corruption of Hob's House, so could be applied to any number of caves (the other one with similar current name is a narrow rift).

Offline AR

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2020, 12:44:48 pm »
There are photos of various entrances in Chris Heathcote's article from Mining History - https://pdmhs.co.uk/MiningHistory/Bulletin%2015-6%20-%20Lead%20and%20Calcite%20Workings%20near%20Chelmorton,%20Derbyshire.pdf , I've attached a photo of mine of the cave opposite Thirst House.

Thirst House isn't a corruption of Hob's House, the "Thirst" part comes from the old English "Thurse", meaning giant/troll.
Dirty old mines need love too....

Offline mikem

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2020, 02:56:18 pm »
Okay, related origin then - trolls & goblins etc.

Has anyone looked at my link above to entrance in Dovedale?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 03:18:29 pm by mikem »

Offline phizz4

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2020, 03:55:55 pm »
I happened to be climbing there on Thursday and, to me, it doesn't fit.

Offline mikem

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Re: Mystery Photo of Puttrell
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2020, 05:07:42 pm »
Yeah, definitely not Frank 'ith (the first two photos are same hole - or should it be Frank i'th'?), there's one further down the dale that's over half way down the pics, labelled "near Biggin Dale".

From another blog:
https://images.app.goo.gl/XdBJPRGnmGHkpY687
« Last Edit: October 03, 2020, 05:17:49 pm by mikem »

 

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