Caving and mental health

gus horsley

New member
I'm doing research for work about mental health.  If someone asked you to take them caving and then said they suffered from a mental health problem, say depression and/or anxiety, what would your initial reaction be?  Would you be happy to take them anyway or would you have second thoughts and, if so, why?
 

richardg

Active member
A really interesting topic Gus..

As a professional mentor / life coach I've found the experience of facing ones fears and overcoming them to be extremely beneficial and if this is done in one area of life it can often transmigrate  into other areas of life.

the famous Cave Explorer Bob Leakey is a perfect example of this.

During our conversations Bob would tell me of how his own thought process and psychology enabled him to the achieve the  great acomplishments he alone was capable of.....

Bob would take on challenges that would create the most fear in him, such as claustrophobia and by facing and overcoming them would become a stronger individual, a system that meant he became an immensely strong character accomplishing great feats, some of which at the time were documented as being of a quality classed as "super human"..


Richard Gibson

 

SamT

Moderator
It would entirely depend

- If they were completely unknown to me it would depend on my 'first impressions'.  I might take them on a very very easy trip if I thought they seemed reasonably ok with it.  Or I might try and make excuses if my 'flaky' detector was ringing alarm bells.

- If I knew them already, I'd have a fair idea of what kind of trip my suit, if any.

I've suffered depression in the past (mildly), never affected my caving.
Not suffered anxiety though.

 

menacer

Active member
Agree sam.
Depends.
Depression and anxiety im ok with.
The more psychotic physical or behavioural disorders, such as Munchausen's, I wouldnt touch with a bargepole.

Simple reasoning is, I dont see someone elses depression or anxiety as ever being a potential threat to my personal space or even life.

 

damo8604

New member
It wouldn't concern me if I was caving with someone suffering from mental health issues, in fact most of the people I cave with display some mental health concerns  :tease:

Just because someone suffers from anxiety doesn't necessarily mean they would become anxious underground, they'd far more likely become anxious in a crowded environment, just the same as 'normal' people, showing no signs of mental health concerns totally freaking out when faced with a squeeze or a duck, we all know it happens.

I am of course not a trained healthcare professional and my opinions are not necessarily fact  :-\
 

molerat

Member
"Mental health problems" cover many, many different things. Would I take somebody caving who has a physical health problem? It would depend on what their condition was. If they had a broken leg, it might not be sensible. If they had hayfever, there's no problem.

There may be a few mental health conditions that could make it difficult for somebody to cave safely. For example, if they had a learning disability that meant communication was very difficult then caving might be off the cards. But depression or anxiety? The person concerned knows best what they are able to do. If they want to go underground, great! Caving is a good means of improving physical and mental health.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
gus horsley said:
I'm doing research for work about mental health.  If someone asked you to take them caving and then said they suffered from a mental health problem, say depression and/or anxiety, what would your initial reaction be?  Would you be happy to take them anyway or would you have second thoughts and, if so, why?
Initial reaction is it is good that they recognise that they have a mental health problem. Suspecting someone has a problem later, which they themselves don't recognise, might very occasionally be more of an issue. But overall, very little here to be concerned about, I suspect.
 

Brains

Well-known member
Speaking from experience, if a club member develops a condition that some of the club dont like (with criminal convictions for said condition), then that person should be expelled from the club on some tenuous excuse such as they cant be insured (untrue). This decision should be taken in a secret, without canvasing the full membership, by a subsection of the committee and any other members who may be present and have an issue with said person. This decision should be based on uninformed opinion with no right of reply or appeal, but instead relying on sensationalist and inaccurate reporting in the press. That person should then be ostracised by thier former clubmates...
 

Bartleby

New member
Was talking to a close friend of mine who had/has experienced depression and anixity.  As she had not told me about this prior to our trip, in fact we got talking whilst having lunch in Box, i asked her how she felt about going underground, did it make her feel more anxious etc?.  Her response:

"Its great being down here, can just switch off from all the c*ap in my head and think about nothing".

 
At the risk of being shot down, may I point out that
1. Depression and anxiety are not the same (just think about the words themselves)
2. They are not even similar
3. They will not have comparable reactions to the same situation.

I await someone with better medical qualifications (MRODoc?) to comment.

That said, yes go for it.
 

Lazarus

New member
RobScott; yes best wait for someone qualified. They may be different but can be connected.

Bartleby; I agree with your friends sentiments. Being underground or even just out on the open fell is a wonderful escape from 'the crap'.

As long as the person is not a danger to themselves or others it should be fine and potentially help them.
 

Brains

Well-known member
Bartleby said:
Was talking to a close friend of mine who had/has experienced depression and anixity.  As she had not told me about this prior to our trip, in fact we got talking whilst having lunch in Box, i asked her how she felt about going underground, did it make her feel more anxious etc?.  Her response:

"Its great being down here, can just switch off from all the c*ap in my head and think about nothing".

I fully agree with this, walking (in the mountains, or round the town) is also a good reliever of symptoms
 

Pie Muncher

Member
gus horsley said:
If someone asked you to take them caving and then said they suffered from a mental health problem, say depression and/or anxiety, what would your initial reaction be?  Would you be happy to take them anyway or would you have second thoughts and, if so, why?
If someone asked you to take them caving. You want to go caving, lets go caving.
and then said they suffered from a mental health problem, say depression and/or anxiety, what would your initial reaction be? You want to go caving, lets go caving.
Would you be happy to take them anyway. Yes.
or would you have second thoughts. No.
and, if so, why? Everyone I have ever caved with has some hangup but I don't brand them with the mental health issue stigma. We all have mental health issues, they fall away when caving, caving with friends, no sh*t underground, peace and being.
 

martinm

New member
Great posts above. I'm actually going for an interview today for a support worker role for people with learning difficulties. I think caving or just walking in the countryside would help them. I know I feel less stressed when up the Peak than at home. (Though it's warmer at home at this time of year!) Will be interesting to see how it goes...
 

caving_fox

Active member
Part of the Scout association risk assessment for any activity is "Do you have any current health conditions the leader needs to know about that will effect your participation".This remains a good question to ask yourself/team every time you go caving etc.

If the member is sufficiently experienced to know what will/won't effect a trip then fine. If it's a new member than perhaps a bit of a chat about what they're likely to experience is in order anyway. So it depends on the person the trip and the details of their  condition.
 

damo8604

New member
mmilner said:
Great posts above. I'm actually going for an interview today for a support worker role for people with learning difficulties. I think caving or just walking in the countryside would help them. I know I feel less stressed when up the Peak than at home. (Though it's warmer at home at this time of year!) Will be interesting to see how it goes...

My first job after leaving the army was a support worker for people with learning difficulties, I loved that job! Did it for quite a few years and had great job satisfaction, I tried to involve them in as many 'normal' activities that 'normal' people did and they loved me for it.

Sadly the one particular chap I was a key worker for passed away, although I had left the care industry years previously, his mother looked me up to invite me to his funeral saying in the short time I had spent in his life, I had made a significant improvement to his quality of life by ignoring his obvious disabilities and giving him a chance to do things he wouldn't normally be able to do.

Further to this, last year I took my and my sisters family on an 'adventure holiday', as usual I took the kids over to Runscar & Thistle to be met by a large group of blind children who had been taken through the caves  (y)

My thoughts are, if a person is capable enough and the appropriate risk assessments have been made in line with current care standards then why not?
 

gus horsley

New member
Thanks for the posts so far.  Compared to the organisation I work for, which has about 200,000 employees, it's apparent that cavers are generally are open-minded about the issue of what people are apparently capable of with mental (and physical) disabilities.  I find it ironic that I can hold down a position of considerable responsibility (and I've also been an underground instructor) whilst carrying a learning disability (adult ADD), yet a large number of our customers are not regarded as fit for work with same condition.
 

mrodoc

Well-known member
It would be interesting to get the views of my daughters who are both working in the NHS in mental health.  As a former GP and sufferer from recurrent depression I would say that caving is really good therapy for it in that it 'gets you out of yourself' into a completely different environment.  I have a feeling that the mental health problem is more likely to prevent the person from caving rather than caving is unsuitable for that person eg a major pyschosis. I have come across cavers to whom this seems to apply. Chronic anxiety may well be helped by allowing an individual to build confidence in challenging situations.

Most people with mental health problems will be well aware of them. The most dangerous are those who are unaware they have a problem at all!
 
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