Author Topic: 2019 income and expenditure  (Read 2691 times)

Offline CavefestUK

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2019 income and expenditure
« on: October 19, 2019, 09:38:54 am »
CavefestUK have produced a PDF of the accounts for our Cavefest event this year. Please feel free to view the attachment.
We hope to make next another fantastic event and we promise to continue to donate our profits to chrity.

Thanks again


Online Minion

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2019, 10:50:14 am »
Have these been, or will they be, independently verified by an impartial third party?

Offline AdrianTurner

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2019, 01:04:55 pm »
Do they need to be?

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Offline CavefestUK

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2019, 02:20:16 pm »
The Clarence hall, charity No. 501687 - recieved £30
Blaina Scouting group - recieved £160
South Wales Cave Rescue - will recieve £250

All of these amounts are esily verified if you wish to follow up. In addition to this, almost a whole barrel of beer was donated to Tim Hargreaves. Tim lives in the Crickhowell area and used the beer at the bar at one of his village events this summer.
Have a cheeky one on us Tim.

We have taken no profit whosoever for ourselves and will continue  to donate to charity in this way.

Thanks again.



Online Minion

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2019, 12:32:11 pm »
Do they need to be?

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At the Cambrian AGM, where the organisers came to muster local support for the event, they assured the CCC that all accounts would be transparent and independently verified.

Online Badlad

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2019, 04:36:11 pm »
I was quite interested in how the finances ended up for Eurospeleo, there was much talk of whether it made a loss who under wrote the event, not to mention what we weren't allowed to mention at BCA council meetings, etc, etc.  However, I never saw any public accounts or a demand for them.  Were there any?

I also sometimes wonder just how much all of Hidden Earth costs to put on but I have never come across any accounts.

Therefore, I'm really quite surprised to see Cavefest publish any form accounts on a public forum.  Well done to them.  Why are they being questioned and not others?

Offline NewStuff

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2019, 04:46:24 pm »
Do they need to be?

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At the Cambrian AGM, where the organisers came to muster local support for the event, they assured the CCC that all accounts would be transparent and independently verified.

Pretty sure they said it would be open and transparent. Not so sure about the verified bit. Yes, I was there.
Permission? Wassat den?

Offline Ian Adams

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2019, 06:24:17 pm »
Our rights (by “our”, I mean “us” the public) with regards to viewing/examining/auditing accounts or books is often mis-understood. In general terms, we can pretty much expect nothing.

Of course, some organisations have statutory obligations that entitle “us” to see some things (ie. LTD companies, Charities etc.) but, in cases where there are no such obligations we are entitled (generally) to diddly squat.

It appears (please correct me if I am wrong) that “CavefestUK” is not a registered company and may well be a private enterprise. If that is the case “we” have no right to demand accounts. It may well be that “CavefestUK” has offered to produce accounts to various parties and it does appear that the accounts have been volunteered on this forum …..

I am not clear as to “why” they have been published here …. Is some form of approval required (tacit or otherwise) from “us”?   Or, are they just for curious eyes?

 :)

Ian
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 06:36:23 pm by Ian Adams »
A door, once opened, may be stepped through in either direction.

Offline CavefestUK

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2019, 07:51:39 pm »
Our rights (by “our”, I mean “us” the public) with regards to viewing/examining/auditing accounts or books is often mis-understood. In general terms, we can pretty much expect nothing.

Of course, some organisations have statutory obligations that entitle “us” to see some things (ie. LTD companies, Charities etc.) but, in cases where there are no such obligations we are entitled (generally) to diddly squat.

It appears (please correct me if I am wrong) that “CavefestUK” is not a registered company and may well be a private enterprise. If that is the case “we” have no right to demand accounts. It may well be that “CavefestUK” has offered to produce accounts to various parties and it does appear that the accounts have been volunteered on this forum …..

I am not clear as to “why” they have been published here …. Is some form of approval required (tacit or otherwise) from “us”?   Or, are they just for curious eyes?

 :)

Ian

Thank you Ian for confirming our position regarding our accounts.
To be frank, *someone* has been undertaking a private agenda to soil the name of CavefestUK. Being the only person present at the CCC AGM last year to vote against the idea of CavefestUK being supported in their endeavours, i wonder what his true intentions are.
We published these accounts here upon his repeated request, this time under the guise of Minion. It saddens us that such a persistance isnt put to better use.
I hope this sheds some light on this issue for you Ian.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 08:50:56 pm by PeteHall, Reason: Personal details removed. »

Offline Stuart France

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2019, 10:03:40 pm »
I enjoyed Cavefest, and it was great to go caving with new people on classic trips at the end of the summer in fantastic weather.   It was a great success from a social and sporting perspective, and that it made a significant profit for good causes is a bonus.  Well done, and thanks to you all.

There’s a “newish caving club” in the old county of Gwent that has grown quickly to sizeable proportions.  Cavefest is their initiative, with significant help from others.    The club meets regularly, they have lots of events, lots of loan gear for beginners, they support their members at all levels, and are doing a great job.

Then there’s an “oldish caving club” a few miles up the road which has seen better days.   Some people from this old club have transferred to the new club, and I suppose the pool of potential caving recruits sees a market for their membership.

Competition where one club used to enjoy a local monopoly is inconvenient.  But this has now become very personal and almost an obsession with opportunities being sought out to rake muck and if necessary to make the muck to rake.  Eventually this will end when those who have lost their marbles come to realise that cavers at large know what muck looks and smells like, and are not interested in it.

This latest imbroglio has nothing to do with accountancy or profits.  It actually concerns envy and has gone on a few years.  It runs deep, is deeply troubling, and it needs to stop.



Offline mudman

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2019, 12:34:09 am »
Hi Stuart,
I was going to keep out of this as I don't really care about Cavefest and their "underground experiences" but as a member of the 'oldish caving club' I can't let what you said lie.
There are a few of your statements that could be questioned, but as there is no direct evidence, I'll refrain.
What I will do though is correct one thing as the members that transferred from the 'oldish caving club' were not established cavers and did so after they were found to be ignoring basic good caving practice by being photographed on and near formations with complete disregard for conservation tapes. There were also instances of dangerous practices  that could have resulted in injuries or worse. We met to discuss these instances and decided to talk to the individual responsible as we felt we had a responsibility to these members but when the 'leader' of this group was refused the club key to OCAF, he threw his toys out and stomped off with his mates to form his new club.
This doesn't run deep as we pretty much ignore them and their self agrandising antics.

Offline NewStuff

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2019, 06:40:06 am »
being photographed on and near formations... dangerous practices  that could have resulted in injuries or worse.

So AFAICT, some person/people is/are trying to manufacture a problem where one does not actually exist? There is not an issue with accounts? There never has been?

If people have a problem with safety practices and conservation, and it's legitimate and not made up, then address those concerns directly, not make up spurious claims on totally unrelated topics and not attempt to make the caving community think there is an issue with the accounting practices.

Permission? Wassat den?

Offline CavefestUK

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2019, 08:05:24 am »
The CCC have been notified about this ongoing, and now recent issue. Im sure it will be dealt with in the appropriate manner.

In the meantime. CavefestUK are happy that we have complied with all requests and gone beyond any legal requirements there may be.



Offline 2xw

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2019, 10:27:38 am »
I wish every stupid caving drama resulted in one of the aggrieved parties setting up a cool event and donating money to charities

Offline droid

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Re: 2019 income and expenditure
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2019, 11:57:52 am »
Not enough weekends.... :lol:
No longer 'Exceptionally antagonistic' 'Deliberately inflammatory'

 

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