Had a request to post that the insitu ladder on the entrance pitch of moorfurlong is now completely knackered and not safe to use.

I think it was a 'Ben' Bentham creation, and was poor condition to say the least, but now its completely detached from the top, the mid point join on one side is broken and the bottom has buckled.

If you want a trip down there, take a scaff bar, sling and either an SRT rope, or wire ladder.

I know a 20m rope easily sees you to the bottom, cant recall if a 10m would or not but I personally dont think it would. I've not got caves of the peak to check the exact depth of the entrance shaft.

14m ladder, 17m lifeline or 17m rope for srt according to the black book

so my memory serves me well. 

Sam - I'm not sure the Moorfurlong ladder was actually a Ben Bentham job. I have a photograph of someone from SUSS climbing it around 1977, which was before Ben became especially active in the Peak. (Before his Peak District days he did quite a lot of caving in the Dales and before that he did a lot of hard climbing in North Wales.) As it's been there over 30 years (assuming it's the same ladder) it's not really surprising it's in a bad way I guess.

OK pitlamp, it was just something lodged in the back of mind, a passing comment someone had made.

Misinformed shall we say.

Never knew Ben was into climbing. must have been 'back in the day' as they say.
Do you know who he knocked about with out there, Livesey/Crew/fawcett - or nobody that distinguished.

Ivan(Green) and myself were going to look at sorting out the entrance, this kind of forces the issue.

Mark

No worries Sam - I just thought I'd mention it because in future people will use this sort of forums as a resource for historical research (and it's useful if unintended misinformation is pointed out).

As for Ben's Welsh climbing era - it's long before my time and I wasn't involved. But I remember spending many a happy afternoon in Castleton, when rained off from a Peak trip, chatting to Ben about it. He rarely mentioned his contemporary climbers but would describe difficult routes he'd put up in some detail (often, as with many of Ben's projects, done solo). It sounded to me like it was in the days when it was considered reasonable to get past "impossible" moves by using the odd peg or two (which narrows down the dates). So it must have been pre Livesey / Fawcett, as they were the ones known for spearheading the drive to free aid routes. It might just have been post Crew.

I'm not sure whether Ben ever went to any effort to record his routes so credits might not have found their way into guidebooks. If you really wanted to know more there will be people around from that particular generation who would probably have stories to tell of Ben's climbing exploits. After all, once you met Ben, he wasn't the sort of person you'd forget. (I just wonder if your fellow Eldon member Bob Dearman might be able to point you at someone who could tell you more?)

Incidentally I first met Ben in the 70s during his brief period of operation in the Dales when, if I remember rightly, he was actually a member of the Craven Pothole Club for a short while. (Old membership lists are available if anyone wanted to verfy that.) He certainly stayed at the CPC hut sometimes. That was just before he turned his attention to the Peak District (living in a chicken hut at Rowter Farm, as legend has it). I believe he was very active for a while caving with Pete Roe - so Pete might remember a bit about Ben's Welsh climbing days?

Ben used to stay with us during that period (73-75) in Llanberis, on his way hitching back and forth from Wigan to his sheepfold on Cader Idris. He'd foresaken his chicken hut for a while. A large part of the time when not on his own he was climbing with Dave? Shaw. Though one of his classic contributions Crack of Cau was with John Sumner. Whilst Ben never climbed really hard in the same way as Livesey etc his forte was on neglected areas to which no one paid attention. I regret then that I did not take up his pestering to go down to mid wales and realise some of the potential. I was too involved in what I thought was the mainstream stuff, such is hindsight. It was for that reason when I moved over to Derbyshire for a spell that I did spend hours underground with Ben searching for the "master cave" , in Hollandtwine and bolting in the chmbers of Oxlow.

Out of interest, was the Hollandtwine work ever properly written up El Agreb?

'Pamplemousse' K Bentham, J A Sumner (AL) Aug 1973

130 metres, Hard Very Severe, 5 pitches

'A vegetated and rarely repeated route up the front of Pencoed Pillar' From part way up Pencoed Pillar scrambe up a vegetated groove etc...

Found in the current Meirionnydd guide book (Climbers Club), ill have a look for some more gems - it maybe fun to seek a few out on next trip over there..

Matt

Scanning the the first ascent records at the back of the guide book, Ben has about 15 first ascents listed from 1973 to 1975, mostly around 'HVS' with some involved the odd point of aid (and descriptions like above)...



Matt

I don't think so. I know that Ben used to keep notes but have no idea if they were ever properly written up. It never occurred to me back then that one day Hollandtwine might vanish! When I was back in the UK in June I was up in that area but I didn't even have the vaguest recollection where it might have been. I only have a few disjointed memories of engine shaft, coffin levels, flame guns and a fang of rock in a sump.

Please, please write down what you can remember!

It might not seem like much but any information at all is better than not having a reference to turn to. It's amazing how such things can become useful in the future. In the late 70s I noticed that the reworking of the spoil heaps round Hollandtwine was getting very close to the engine shaft. Almost as an afterthought I took a picture with a cheap camera then thought no more about it, for decades. Recently the lads had a serious go at re-entering Hollandtwine. They didn't manage to get in (not through lack of trying) but I was able to rummage out that photograph as part of the information available to help the search - and it may well have been the last one ever taken before the shaft was lost.

Do write something down, even if it seems vague and disjointed.  If there's no obvious journal in the pipeline it could always be given to John Beck to put in the Derbyshire Cave Registry.

Could always go in the Eldon news letters/come journals. Jules is always happy to receive material - even if it is "archive" footage type stuff, as Pitlamp says, what may be a vague memory for you could well provide a snippet of missing information for the younger generation to chase up.

I know a few people are very keen to get into hollantwine again, and theres still the possibility if the fabled connection from Hazard can be found.

There should be some stuff on Hollandtwine in J-Rat's diaries

graham said:

There should be some stuff on Hollandtwine in J-Rat's diaries

Click to expand...

Would you like a transcript?

Yes please - but this topic seems to have drifted away from Moorfurlong (which is partly my fault, so apologies to the original poster!). If you can supply a transcript maybe it could be used to start a new thread on references about Hollandtwine Mine - this could prove very useful to future cavers working in the area.

As far as I can remenber it I was told that the ladder in Moorfurlong mine was installed prior to the second world war in the search for Fluorspar. This was related to me by the sadly missed Jack Eidson of Tideswell who was a spar miner as is dad was before him. Now we get onto Ben Bentham, he did keep records on all his work both in the climbing and caving world. I caved with him from around 1972 until he passed away on many ocassions. There are many stories that I could tell about Ben (one day I may write them up) but not now. As for Hollandtwine I could tell a few more, Jrat and had much fun in there digging in the chokes but again thats another story or two or three or fifty
he he
 

Tpot 

Peter Burgess said:

graham said:

There should be some stuff on Hollandtwine in J-Rat's diaries

Click to expand...

Would you like a transcript?

Click to expand...

Anyone who wants it, please send your email ad. by PM and I'll forward an extract for you (I'm assuming I've done this log book already - I haven't checked yet, but it does sound familiar).

OK it's ready. a 5-page Word document.