Star Shaft - full of dog bags...

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
We were at Star Shaft the other day and once we got our heads around the interesting rigging at the top we had a nice pootle down the cave. The second half of the second pitch was flooded (above any of the wooden galleries) which I thought might be the case so couldn't really explore anything but it was good SRT practice.

On the way out I was planning on taking up a few odd bits of rubbish that were lying around, picked up a small plastic bag in the first passage and got to the bottom of the main shaft. I then realised there were many more of these small plastic bags at the bottom of the shaft, at which point I realised what they were and I am afraid to say bailed on taking any rubbish out. I will be bringing a black plastic bag for rubbish (with handles) on my next trip, and if I can convince anyone to nip over next time I am in the Mendips I will try and clear it up a bit. The problem is of course dog walkers dropping the bags through the hole in the gate (plus the odd bottle and can). Reading old threads it seems like originally there was a plan to put a flap on this (to stop cows putting their foot through the hole)? Or alternatively perhaps a small laminated sign 'DON'T THROW SH*T DOWN THE HOLE' might dissuade dog walkers who are under the mistaken impression that nobody will ever go down that hole? If I convince someone to come with me on the next Mendips trip I could knock one up and work out some sort of attachment strategy.

Incidentally, climbing back out I was quite worried about crashing into the nice straws on the wall, although that may have been because I was foolishly wearing my tackle sack rather than dangling it below me.

In any event, take care where you stand at the bottom of the shaft :p
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Anyone who is able to put a padlockable flap on the entrance (so it would end up being double padlocked) would probably be very welcome to do so (provided CSCC knew about it) and doubtless a duplicate padlock would be provided. Otherwise, as you point out, the place is likely to become something of a biohazard and broken glass pit!
 

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
I've never understood why dog walkers, after going through the rigmarole of putting a dog's egg in a bag then decide to tie it onto a branch or fence. What's going on there?
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Quite simple - they're mentally ill, as are many of our fellow citizens these days.

On a recent renovation job on the river walls in Sheffield, one of our other jobs was to collect rubbish from the banks, and only when we got started did we realise just how many turds in bags there actually were - literally almost a hundred bags in a hundred metres. Now this is in woodland, so arguably the dogs would have been far better off just shitting anywhere rather than their owners preserving this stuff for evermore in plastic. But no, into their little bin-liner package it went, and then thrown away, often into a tree, to hang there like some twisted bauble. It's a common example of utterly bonkers behaviour that is so integrated into their lives that they see it as completely normal.

Many people are only semi-conditioned for modern life, and whilst their reflex is to obey authority, their conflicting reflex to disobey it comes to the fore once they're out of the 'legal citizen zone' - like the woods. So although they daren't let their dog shit freely, they are just brave enough to not carry the shit around with them, like they would have to on the street, and just toss it away. I caught a guy doing it as we were tidying up, and so I pointed out the illogic of his actions, but rather than discuss it with us, he just stared ahead in a forced rictus smile and staggered off, crippled with embarrassment. Perhaps he couldn't handle smart guys and hi-viz in one eyeful. I could only wish him further mental illness really.
 

Peter Burgess

New member
I was once told that bags hanging on fences and trees were when walkers were going to come back that way and pick it up on the way home. There must therefore be an awful lot of walkers with their dogs who never came back again, in that case.
 

AR

Well-known member
I don't think I'd describe unthinking moronism as a mental illness, but Phil has pretty much got the problem described. It's become more-or-less socially unacceptable to not pick up your dog's doings, but too many people don't stop to think when is and isn't it appropriate to do this. Speaking as a dog owner, I apply the nuisance test to the Terrierist's turds; are they going to cause a problem to someone if left where they are? Given this, the bag comes out if it's where someone's likely to tread in it, somewhere prominent like short grass in front of someone's house, or on meadow in mowing season - that's animal feed growing on it and grass-eating animals are no fonder of finding a dog turd in their dinner than we are!

Otherwise, nature will deal with it if left where it fell and it's best left, although I still wince slightly at the memory of a crow picking maggots of of a pile of dogshit by the canal near Skipton....
 

pwhole

Well-known member
Actually, I quite like 'unthinking moronism' as a term, so I'll use that from now on. But going back to the original post, a laminated sign is probably a good idea, not least as it will force these unthinking morons, if only for a few seconds, to actually think. It may briefly sting, but it's good for them in the long run...
 

grahams

Well-known member
Peter Burgess said:
I was once told that bags hanging on fences and trees were when walkers were going to come back that way and pick it up on the way home. There must therefore be an awful lot of walkers with their dogs who never came back again, in that case.

You're correct - it is an awful lot of walkers. The heroic LDNP wardens recently collected the bagged doggy do-doos which had been dumped around the Buttermere path/trees and made a pile about 3 feet deep. Why the stuff is bagged is one of life's great mysteries. Surely it would be better to simply let pooch do its stuff in the woods rather than preserving the smelly output in polythene with the added danger to wildlife and farm animals that this unnecessary practice brings?
 

SamT

Moderator
grahams said:
Surely it would be better to simply let pooch do its stuff in the woods

NOOOO - pick the fecking stuff up and TAKE IT HOME and dispose of it properly.  Its not just my kids that like to wander around 'off' the footpath in the fields and the forests, I do too and there is nothing worse than treading in a lump of foul stinking, poisonous dog shit.  Actually there is, its getting back into the car and realising someones trod in one and having to scrub the footwells and upholstery in the car as well as the the boots.

It drives to me to derision to the point that I'm sometimes tempted to drop my keks in front of guilty dog owners and curl one out just up the path from them just to see their reaction.

TAKE IT HOME!!! DEAL WITH IT!!!.

Why on earth people think its acceptable practice I'll never figure out.  When my kids were younger, they wore nappies (biodegradable ones!) and we dealt with the contents.  I didn't let them just wander around shitting on and off the paths because clearly THATS UNACCEPTABLE behavious...

RRRRAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH  :mad:

[/rant] #ifeelbettergettingthatoffmychest
 

cap n chris

Well-known member
Received a GENIUS suggestion to solve the dog-shit-thrown-into-the-convenient-hole problem. Put a significantly heavy (but not impossible for a bunch of cavers to swivel) flagstone across the entrance/hole. Will need some people with a couple of crowbars/sack trolley to organise.
 

david3392

Member
An alien lands on Earth for the first time. It sees 2 species of creatures. One of the species takes a dump and the other carefully places it in a bag and they both carry on walking. Which one get's asked, 'take me to your leader'?
 

kay

Well-known member
grahams said:
Peter Burgess said:
I was once told that bags hanging on fences and trees were when walkers were going to come back that way and pick it up on the way home. There must therefore be an awful lot of walkers with their dogs who never came back again, in that case.
Even if they are coming back, why is OK for the rest of us  to have our walks spoilt by their bags of shit?
You're correct - it is an awful lot of walkers. The heroic LDNP wardens recently collected the bagged doggy do-doos which had been dumped around the Buttermere path/trees and made a pile about 3 feet deep. Why the stuff is bagged is one of life's great mysteries. Surely it would be better to simply let pooch do its stuff in the woods rather than preserving the smelly output in polythene with the added danger to wildlife and farm animals that this unnecessary practice brings?

I look after a local nature park - I'd far rather they just kicked the loose stuff into the undergrowth. I spend hours trying to reach highly visible plastic bags in the middle of bramble patches or 15 feet up a tree. There's far more useful things I could be doing with my time limited volunteering time.
 

kay

Well-known member
SamT said:
Why on earth people think its acceptable practice I'll never figure out.  When my kids were younger, they wore nappies (biodegradable ones!) and we dealt with the contents.  I didn't let them just wander around shitting on and off the paths because clearly THATS UNACCEPTABLE behavious...

But that would be a whole lot better than leaving the full nappy on the path ...
 

SamT

Moderator
kay said:
But that would be a whole lot better than leaving the full nappy on the path ...

:confused: - I'd rather pick up a nappy and dispose of it than scrape turd off my shoe/upholstery.  But how often do you see a nappy tossed into the bushes (I know its not un-heard of, but its nowhere near as common as dog turd bags).
 

RobinGriffiths

Well-known member
The sooner they take a dna sample when chipping a dog the better. Little turd bags hanging on bushes would be quite convenient for dog mess enforcement officers (should such a calling exist) to get samples to match from. Thinking about it, at ?2000 fine a pop, it could be quite lucrative.
 

bograt

Active member
Here in the High Peak it is a statutory fine of ?1000 for allowing your dog to foul in a public place, I do not believe there is an equivalent penalty for distributing bags of doggy poo all over the place --!!!!---

Although in many touristy dog walking places round here there are dedicated bins for disposal of said bags, must take a special kind of person to volunteer to empty them  :ras:
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
bograt said:
Here in the High Peak it is a statutory fine of ?1000 for allowing your dog to foul in a public place, I do not believe there is an equivalent penalty for distributing bags of doggy poo all over the place --!!!!---

Littering is an ?80 fixed penalty charge or can be up to ?2500 fine for persistent littering (according to Wiki).
 

paul

Moderator
There are already fines applicable to various examples of anti-social behaviour such as this. The problem is that without enforcement, they prove to be no deterrent.
 
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