Author Topic: Lines in Upstream Hurtle  (Read 2526 times)

Offline Benfool

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Lines in Upstream Hurtle
« on: May 07, 2019, 09:14:27 am »
I was tidying up the lines between Jingle Junction and Jingle Bell in upstream Hurtle on Saturday, and yet again I found a load of tech line in there.

There was a good length of 3mm white nylon line from the top of the void, up to Frog hall - I've stripped it out and replaced it with something more suitable. Although it was better than the usual 1mm shite I find in there, its still completely inappropriate for the conditions.

Please please please, can people stop using white nylon line in caves in the Yorkshire Dales, no matter how thick it is. White nylon line is very soft and quickly abraids, especially in high flow situations like The Void. After a single flood, that line would of been ripped to shreds and could of been a serious entanglement hazard. White nylon line is also hard to feel in gloved, cold hands as its so soft, quickly goes brown in the peat stained water so is difficult to see and is difficult to manage and remove once its fucked. If you get to some broken line in a cave in the Yorkshire Dales, then either fix it with something appropriate (6mm polyprop or plastic coated washing line), or leave it alone and the local divers will fix it (if you post on public side of the CDG forum, somebody will get onto it pretty quick). I often find this type of line in Hurtle and eventually it will kill somebody - please dont do it.

If non CDG people are laying line in caves in the Dales, then consider joining the CDG. We are a fairly friendly bunch and have a lot of experience laying line in caves in UK conditions, so can help train you in best practice. At the very least, if people are altering lines, then can they post a message on the public side of the CDG forum, so the entire community knows whats going on.

Thanks

Ben Wright
CDG Northern Section.

Offline Keris82

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Re: Lines in Upstream Hurtle
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2019, 12:43:31 pm »
Can I ask, what is this line used for? I'm not from the Dales so just curious. Thanks!

Offline maxf

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Re: Lines in Upstream Hurtle
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2019, 12:58:13 pm »
Lines are used to guide the diver safely in and out of the cave but can pose a hazard in themselves as described if unsuitable to the conditions

Offline Benfool

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Re: Lines in Upstream Hurtle
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2019, 01:29:20 pm »
The problem comes when people use techniques and equipment that are suitable for the large, clean caves of France, Florida and Mexico in the small, bad vis, silty caves in the UK.  Thin nylon line is completely inappropriate and using it will eventually kill somebody. I love thin line, its great - you can get 100s of meters onto a small reel and its proper cheap. But I only love it in France, not the Dales.

I think that this is partly the fault of the CDG, being a reasonably closed organisation - some people have got the impression that we are elitist and difficult to join. I'm a strong believer that anybody diving and laying line in underwater caves in the UK should be a member of the CDG. The CDG are best placed to train people in how to safely deal with these situations as they have been doing so for the last 70 years. If the CDG was a bit more open to letting "non-cavers" into the group, then maybe we'd see less of these problems.

B

Offline Pegasus

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Re: Lines in Upstream Hurtle
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2019, 03:58:02 pm »
Global Moderator Comment Please keep it polite, thanks

Administrator Comment Three posts removed. It's a serious message let's keep the message clean
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 05:09:06 pm by Badlad »

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Lines in Upstream Hurtle
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2019, 05:02:52 pm »
I suspect that comment was a bit tongue in cheek. ( I read it that way, at least.) Obviously we were all very concerned as that situation developed and really pleased it all ended well. Benfool is making a serious point though; we should all take care over line selection in high flow caves.

Offline Duncan Price

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Re: Lines in Upstream Hurtle
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2019, 07:08:06 pm »
Please please please, can people stop using white nylon line in caves in the Yorkshire Dales, no matter how thick it is. White nylon line is very soft and quickly abraids, especially in high flow situations like The Void. After a single flood, that line would of been ripped to shreds and could of been a serious entanglement hazard. White nylon line is also hard to feel in gloved, cold hands as its so soft, quickly goes brown in the peat stained water so is difficult to see and is difficult to manage and remove once its fucked. If you get to some broken line in a cave in the Yorkshire Dales, then either fix it with something appropriate (6mm polyprop or plastic coated washing line), or leave it alone and the local divers will fix it (if you post on public side of the CDG forum, somebody will get onto it pretty quick). I often find this type of line in Hurtle and eventually it will kill somebody - please dont do it.

For what it is worth, there's been on a discussion on the UK Cave & Mine Facebook page about this.  No one has owned up to it (and it may not have been one of their members) but the point has been noted.  Easy access sites such as this are frequented by all sorts of cave divers not all of whom belong to any organisation.

If non CDG people are laying line in caves in the Dales, then consider joining the CDG. We are a fairly friendly bunch and have a lot of experience laying line in caves in UK conditions, so can help train you in best practice. At the very least, if people are altering lines, then can they post a message on the public side of the CDG forum, so the entire community knows what's going on.

Unfortunately the [now redacted] replies to this post do nothing to attract cave divers to joining the CDG.

Offline Pitlamp

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Re: Lines in Upstream Hurtle
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2019, 07:31:25 pm »
I suspect that comment was a bit tongue in cheek. ( I read it that way, at least.) Obviously we were all very concerned as that situation developed and really pleased it all ended well. Benfool is making a serious point though; we should all take care over line selection in high flow caves.

The first two sentences in my post above may confuse people because they refer to one of the posts which the administrator has now removed. Just saying, for anyone scratching their heads.

The third of my three sentences above is still germane to this discussion, of course.

 

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