Elon Musk appears to repeat his vile 'pedo' smear

David Rose

Active member
Elon Musk, the Tesla billionaire, seems to have repeated his outrageous claim that Vernon Unsworth is a paedophile.

I thought Musk was pretty disgusting the first time around. This time, there just have to be consequences.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/aug/29/elon-musk-doubles-down-on-pedo-claims-against-uk-cave-diver
 

Simon Beck

Member
Yes but wasn't it Vern who started it by publicly telling him to shove his invention up his arse?

Regardless of what went on behind the scenes, you don't speak to someone who puts rockets in space for a living like that, esp to a camera. 
 

NewStuff

New member
Simon Beck said:
Yes but wasn't it Vern who started it by publicly telling him to shove his invention up his arse?

Regardless of what went on behind the scenes, you don't speak to someone who puts rockets in space for a living like that, esp to a camera.

Why not? I'd have no issues doing it if it was warranted, and Musk seemed to ride the whole event as a PR stunt. I'd be pissed off to be put in that position.

Telling someone to shove the rocket because it's a PR stunt that won't work is a far cry from being called a kiddy fiddler. Much as I like products from the companies he's associated with, he doesn't get a free pass. Guy is a loose canon with a few screws loose. Hope the chap get's suitable recompense, Musk is well out of order.
 

Bob Smith

Member
Simon, that's a rather odd argument, Elon Musk's ability to run a company that does something not particularly original should have no bearing on this.

I expect Vernon would have made the "where it hurts" suggestion to anyone that was making a similar non workable suggestion.

It's hard to see how this would warrant such a vile public suggestion.
 

Simon Beck

Member
I doubt Elon even blinked and will continue to be a success regardless, but that's my point, you don't play with that type of fire and expect not to get severely burnt.
 

Simon Beck

Member
Nope, just act accordingly.

Would we be having this conversation if he hadn't told him where to stick it to the media?
 

NewStuff

New member
Simon Beck said:
Nope, just act accordingly.

Would we be having this conversation if he hadn't told him where to stick it to the media?

Would we be having this conversation if he hadn't ridden a potential tragedy like a racehorse for PR purposes?
 

tony from suffolk

Well-known member
The bigger they are...Musk, arrogant tosser that he is,seems to have adopted the mistaken belief that, because our friend didn't choose to pursue the previous libel, he can continue to say what he likes without reprisal.
 

Clive G

Member
On 10th July I thought Elon Musk - who had a 'working hyperbaric rescue chamber delivered direct to the cave where it was to be used' - had been poorly treated by the media and correspondingly wrote an e-mail to one of The Guardian Online reporters working on the Thai rescue story, including the following:

As soon as I heard that the football team and their coach had been found alive but trapped at the far end of some pretty long underwater passages, the fact that the longest dive previously required to get hitherto non divers out of a flooded cave in the UK - Sleets Gill in Yorkshire, March 1992 - was 100m to an airbell, followed by a further 20-30m, made me realise that diving these youngsters back out again would require going against all accepted best practice in cave diving manuals and potentially risking losing one or more along the way. A very difficult decision to have to take.

However, there was little doubt in my mind that waiting for the monsoon rains to come in force would have been allowing nature to take the decision for you by effectively completely submerging most, if not probably all, of the cave system for months on end. If such happens during the monsoon period then there would not even have been bodies left to recover afterwards.

So, after collecting my thoughts, I telephoned Reg Vallintine of the Historical Diving Society to pick up on a plan I'd proposed for evacuating a seriously injured caver from the Daren Cilau cave system near Crickhowell in South Wales, in the event it wasn't going to be possible for the casualty to assist with the rescue operation during the exit haul through the very tight and twisting 520-m long Entrance Series. The alternative was to dive them out through a 575m-long sump, at depths of up to -22m, safely wrapped up in a pressurised capsule, breathing from a self-contained supply of air for the duration of the dive.

(If Channel 4 TV had properly qualified documentary commissioning editors during the mid-to-late 1980s then you'd have heard about this on network TV across the UK, along with Channel 4 today having film footage of Rick Stanton and Ian Rolland in action at the cutting edge of British cave exploration, through the proposed drama/documentary film*
LlangattockMountain - Searching for the Secret River.)

As things turned out, Reg wasn't in and so I had to leave a telephone answerphone message mentioning the diving escape capsule idea. The same evening, another member of the society told me that the name of the apparatus I was enquiring about is the Hyperlite 1 portable hyperbaric chamber - http://www.sosgroup.co/product/hyperlite-1-portable-hyperbaric-chamber/4 - which I checked out online and, realising the amount of modification required for cave diving without ripping the hoses away from their connectors, ensuring the fabric wouldn't be torn by scraping on sharp rocks and protecting & securing the control unit, there just wasn't enough time to turn round a usable device in the few days available.

Well, given the Thai Navy already has two Hyperlite portable hyperbaric chambers, I guess this is where some official in Thailand thought of contacting Elon Musk to see if he could manufacture a suitable device in time . . .

My favoured choice of an escape route was working a way down into the cave from one or other of the surface holes, but it seemed that those on the spot had already realised the diving option was going to give the best and most likely chance of saving everyone's lives.

The reason why the 'suitability' comment has been rather bluntly put forwards in relation to the mini 'submarine' and the tham Luang rescue is that the most tricky part of the diving is reported to have required simultaneously scraping one's chest on the floor and back on the roof of the tunnel (for a normal-sized person) whilst underwater. When you see that most divers wear their air cylinders on their back you'll understand the problem here in making progress through such a tunnel without drowning. Add to this a few twists and turns in short succession and you'll realise that a rigid cylinder will not bend to go round the corners in the same way that a human body can.

However, what Elon Musk has achieved in a phenomenally short period of time is exactly the type of emergency diving escape capsule that would have saved lives had the very long sections of diving also required diving deeper than the 5m or so, which I believe has been the greatest depth required in tham Luang.

So, I hope Elon Musk develops his capsule further and the equipment will be ready and available when it will truly, one day, prove to be life-saving apparatus. He should be applauded for stepping into the breach, working extremely fast under pressure from the monsoon clock and developing an important piece of diving safety equipment which has hitherto been unavailable.

*Sid Perou had agreed to do the filming and Bruce Bedford, who founded Descent magazine and already had a number of skillfully written BBC radio dramas to his credit, was the screenwriter. The proposed producer was John Ellis of the Channel 4 TV Visions UK/European cinema series.

In retrospect, what amazes me is the speed with which this device was delivered to the cave 'ready to use' . . .

There can be problems with hyperbaric chambers, especially should a hose become severed when the chamber is under pressure, such as by being snagged on a sharp rock in a sump with poor visibility. Here's an example from the James Bond film Licence to Kill (1989): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj4A_l6hJyw I've met and chatted with John Glen who directed and created this scene (edited down here from the 'realistic' version shot, to get past the film censor) - he's the Bond director who oversaw the filming of the ski-to-parachute jump sequence which opens The Spy Who Loved Me (1977).

In real life, when a valve stuck on one such pressurised chamber with a horse inside, here's what happened: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1u7UtbT1ss

So, the thing is, these devices need thorough testing before being used at the sharp end, with a real person's life at stake inside. It would therefore be interesting to hear what testing was done on this 'working hyperbaric rescue chamber delivered direct to the cave where it was to be used' . . .

 
I'm with Simon and Clive on this because:
1) Vern shouldn't have been so dismissive and plain rude in the first place
2) As I understand it, Musk was asked at very short notice by a minister he was acquainted with in the Thai government if he could help in any way
3) I understand that Musk was in direct contact with the dive team and that at least some of them encouraged his efforts, including providing details of the passage conditions which he required to test his design
4) I saw no evidence that Musk was milking the situation for PR - reporters and news networks desperate to provide some new copy did that for nothing
5) Incredibly, Musk actually delivered something which appears to have been usable (certainly in less awkward conditions), albeit the weather dictated that there was no time to evaluate it before the only tested option thought to be feasible by the people who would have to carry it out had to be decided on.
Having said that, of course Musk's reflex remark was, to say the least, stupid; his reluctance to apologise inexcusable; and his most recent insinuation asinine.

Credit to Vern for his timely advice to the Thai authorities; credit to Musk for putting his reputation on the line by trying to help; and recognise they're both human and so liable to be caught out under the pressure of publicity...which is what the press piranhas feed on
 

mikem

Well-known member
Vern's mum joined in, but Musk hasn't been sensible in his social media comments for some time:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5973553/Mother-hero-British-caver-Vernon-Unsworth-says-Elon-Musk-shot.html

Mike
 

SamT

Moderator
Martin Laverty said:
I'm with Simon and Clive on this because:
1) Vern shouldn't have been so dismissive and plain rude in the first place
2) As I understand it, Musk was asked at very short notice by a minister he was acquainted with in the Thai government if he could help in any way
3) I understand that Musk was in direct contact with the dive team and that at least some of them encouraged his efforts, including providing details of the passage conditions which he required to test his design
4) I saw no evidence that Musk was milking the situation for PR - reporters and news networks desperate to provide some new copy did that for nothing
5) Incredibly, Musk actually delivered something which appears to have been usable (certainly in less awkward conditions), albeit the weather dictated that there was no time to evaluate it before the only tested option thought to be feasible by the people who would have to carry it out had to be decided on.
Having said that, of course Musk's reflex remark was, to say the least, stupid; his reluctance to apologise inexcusable; and his most recent insinuation asinine.

Credit to Vern for his timely advice to the Thai authorities; credit to Musk for putting his reputation on the line by trying to help; and recognise they're both human and so liable to be caught out under the pressure of publicity...which is what the press piranhas feed on

Well put Martin.

I dont for one second think Musk's comment is in anyway acceptable, the connotations/ramifications of an accusation like that, put on a global stage can be massively personally damaging, and I think Vern has every right to sue.

However, I do think Verns comments were rather un-diplomatic at the time, a little strongly worded and disingenuous.

I too couldn't really reconcile the flak that Musk was getting for trying to help out.  Yes we all know the mini sub was all a bit impractical, but it was rather impressive that he managed to cobble something like together at such short notice at deliver it on site.

It seems Musk hasn't quite grasped the concept that Twitter is not just about chatting and bants with your mates, its rather more a platform for issuing statements to the world stage.
If he'd used the word 'idiot' or somesuch, we'd never have heard about this, but the word 'peado' was just plain stupid and he should suffer some sort of comeback from Vern and his lawyers and at the very least, issue an official apology.


 

BradW

Member
There is no equivalence between deliberately claiming someone is a criminal pervert, and using an unfortunate phrase which is solely designed to graphically demonstrate your disdain for someone's actions.

Musk's words are designed to ruin someone's reputation.

Vern's words were provocative but are unlikely to have been chosen to affect Musk's standing in the world.

Musk seems quite capable of making himself look foolish without anyone else's help.
 

royfellows

Well-known member
BradW said:
There is no equivalence between deliberately claiming someone is a criminal pervert, and using an unfortunate phrase which is solely designed to graphically demonstrate your disdain for someone's actions.

Musk's words are designed to ruin someone's reputation.

Vern's words were provocative but are unlikely to have been chosen to affect Musk's standing in the world.

Musk seems quite capable of making himself look foolish without anyone else's help.

I would suspect that we dont agree on a lot of things, but we do on this one. Sound sense.
(y)
 

David Rose

Active member
This was a very stressful situation, and given all the pressure everyone was under, it's possible Vernon was too harsh about Musk's idea. But as others have pointed out, Musk's disgusting response was libellous, vile, and totally uncalled for. It sounded to me like an egomaniacal plutocrat stamping his feet and screaming like an entitled toddler because he felt he could. And believe me, he knew damn well how's social media works.

But here's the real point now. Musk realised - or supposedly realised - that he'd gone too far, apologised and withdrew the tweet. And now, weeks later, he has rekindled the whole affair making the outrageous insinuation that because Vernon hasn't yet sued, maybe his libellous insult was true all along.

Suing for libel is expensive, time-comsuming and stressful, and if Vernon decided he didn't want to go down that road, it would be totally understandable. Indeed, where would he sue, exactly? Thailand? America? England? To twist that into an implication that maybe Vernon is a "pedo" after all is utterly despicable, and shows Musk's initial apology was bogus and hypocritical.
 

mikem

Well-known member
Not sure Mum's comments helped there, but as you suggest, suing puts yourself, your family & friends under immense potential scrutiny & stress, so may not be worth any amount of money...
 
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