alanw
Well-known member
“How not 2” video. 3 people prussicking + 2 people abseiling (separately 😱) on 1 rope.
- Thread starter Ian P
- Start date
JAshley73
Active member
No. You have to abseil down there. Either by the 586' pit route, or by the 400' pit route... I don't know how long the "trip" is to come from the other entrance/400' pit. If the concern is another group being below them as rocks are being dropped - it would be extremely unlikely... I guess I can't make too many excuses for them, other than to say that some/most? of the cavers on the trip are experienced, and have been to Ellison's before.
Yes, I understand you'd have to abseil, but if you'd come down the 400' and were exploring at the bottom (which is what cavers do in the UK in caves with multiple pits), it doesn't matter how experienced you are if somebody drops a rock down the shaft you happen to be at the bottom of. Yes, it's unlikely, but it seems irresponsible to introduce an unnecessary risk to other people for no benefit, even if the risk is small?
Tim Pickering
Active member
Filming it and posting it on YouTube without a warning as to why you shouldn't do it merely encourages others to copy. They're not the only ones. That 'adventure light' couple (I think that's what they call themselves) also lob rocks down shafts.
Whenever the inevitable 'did he die?' question comes up about Christopher Long at White Scar cave, I always make a point of telling my group about the first recorded caving-related death in the Dales, and how it was caused by someone chucking a rock down the main shaft of Alum Pot, and why it's never a good idea to do such a thing. Ever. Experienced cavers have no excuse, and should lead by example. I'll stop ranting now but it does really get my goat.
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
I didn't know you could do that with a stop and I was wondering about training and certification, so I used Google's brilliant and not at all making up nonsense AI for advice. I think it might be covered in IRATA level 4?
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
Google AI tells me.... "AI Overview
According to available data, an IRATA Level 4 technician in the UK can expect to earn an average salary of around £54,000 per year"
But you're better off doing your IRATA 5 exam, Google AI says..."According to available data, an IRATA Level 5 technician in the UK can expect to earn an average salary of around £60,000 per year"
Best of all is IRATA 6, this is the one you really need to aim for "An IRATA Level 6 technician, considered the highest level of rope access certification, can typically earn a salary between £50,000 and £80,000 per year"
Thank goodness for AI, it'd have taken me ages to find out all that info without its help.
aricooperdavis
Moderator
I can't imagine using a descender for a purpose it's not intended or rated for is going to appear even in imaginary IRATA levels. The loaded rope trick isn't in the manual, so I classify it in the same category as using a stop as a trad anchor!
JAshley73
Active member
100%. The chances of running into another party on a caving trip are extremely low here. Maybe at a popular spot, maybe... At a vertical-required cave, where someone else is at the bottom...? So low that....??? you're probably more likely to win the lottery...
Unlike a lot of places in the world, cave locations aren't typically shared or published, in order to discourage non-cavers from getting hurt, lost, or vandalizing. I don't think we have near the number of cavers visiting caves as in Europe, and there's so many to choose from on any given day. Between Kentucky, Tennesse, and Missouri, (Just 3 states that I know rough numbers of) there's over 22,000 registered caves... I think our NSS has only around 8,000 dues-paying members.
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
Am I miss-seeing, but is there someone at the bottom of the shaft wearing a bandana instead of a helmet? Or it could be a bandana on a helmet. Yee ha.
Tim Pickering
Active member
Is it really to discourage non-cavers from getting hurt, lost, or vandalising? That doesn't seem to be an issue in the UK. Most non-cavers who have an interest in venturing into one of the many caves/potholes they happen upon, tend to make enquiries into how it's done, which leads them to getting in touch with a caving club or other organisations such as the CNCC or BCA.
Anyway, back on to the subject of lobbing rocks down holes, whether you're likely to come a cropper down the bottom of a US cave is by-the-by. Publicising it on a world wide platform means others might think it's a good idea. Others that might live in places with a lot of caves where there's a lot of caving activity. I just don't think there's any justifiable reason to do it, considering the risk to others, however small you may think that risk is.
JAshley73
Active member
How timely, this was posted in a local caving Facebook group today.
Yes, we, USA cavers, do not want unexperienced people venturing into caves and,
1- Vandalizing them
2- Trespassing to visit them
3- Getting lost and/or hurt in them.
There does seem to be a renewed interest in caving. Credit YouTube and socials for some of that. I think it's great. Of course, we want to see these folks taken in by other cavers, and shown the proper gear, and behavior to visit caves safely.
A quick lecture on throwing rocks could be part of that too. I think that horse has been beaten well enough - perhaps we shall give it a rest.
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
I think that horse could take some more beating 
JAshley73
Active member
Shall we use clubs, or rocks? (See what I did there...?)I think that horse could take some more beating
Slightly off-topic, but I was not impressed when (some time ago) I was watching 'the Great' Alfred Wainright on the TV one day doing a series on walks in the Dales. On walking up to a pothole (I forget which one) he told his co-presenter that you could get some idea of the depth of such a thing by dropping a rock down it . . . and he proceeded to do exactly that.
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