A lone bell...

[mudmonkey]

Nice try George but they won't let us. Some clubs (e.g. walking) were transferred across to U-Sport (the PROFIT-MAKING!! organisation that do Shef. Uni sports...) a few years back because the Union didn't want liability. They asked if they could go back and were told they couldn't. They will basically allow the knitting club and the "be nice to fluffy bunnies" society to be Union ones. And all U-Sport cares about is medals and covering their own arses.

Several clubs are going this year and this includes most of the "high-risk" (read "high perceived risk") ones - because we cost more per head. Why? Largely because they insist on contracting someone in to give us "high risk sports advice".

And it sounds increasingly as if they won't even let us exist next year 'cos then they're liable for us. Even if we can provide EVERYTHING they do for us at NO COST. ut:

So much for encouraging a broad range of sports.

Ah well. The narrow-mindedness of bureaucracy.

 

[Brendan]

Damn. Is there a ´be nice to fluffy bunnies´ club :sniper: . Screw this caving!

Seriously though there is a big problem in the University caving world. I thought it had started to improve after the first CHECC (Council of Higher Education Caving Clubs) meet, as there were lots of clubs there, but then this year there were only about 9 clubs, so whether the others coldn´t be bothered or don´t exist I don´t know.
We are still getting lots of Freshers interested in joining - in my first year there were only about 4 of us who stayed on but we have had increasingly more every year since and no longer look like we are going to shuffle out of existence. I don´t know why the Uni clubs are failing - of Sheffield is typical it isn´t through lack of interest (prob 40+ freshers every yr, about 7-10 stay). I can only assume its because the Uni staff don´t understand what we do - actually I know they don´t. We had a CIC attached to us for the past 2 yrs, and on every trip we did we had to give details, but not once were we told we were doing anthing other than perfectly. He came with us down Gingling and was happy with us. What more can we do? I am wondering about offering to take some of the Union staff caving to show them what we actually do.
Either that or start the Cave Diving scoiety, the Cave exploration society, the cave surveying society, ec etc and pool the guaranteed society funding.

Its almost as if the Union are trying to get more money out of us and give us less. :evil: Or am I being horrendously cynical.........

 

[Brendan]

Oh yes and with regard to medals most of our competetive clubs suck anyway. They do better letting us compete. We might at least win something! 8)

 

[Huw Groucutt]

I think taking some 'official' types caving would be a good idea, Oxford Uni CC did a similar thing with some sporting body at that uni and i think that got them some more funding.

 

[George North]

Alternatively you could create the Sheffield University Fluffy Bunnys Society, who happen to go looking for fluffy bunnies down caves every weekend...
:evill:

 

[Mark]

Why does nobody want to go caving any longer??? I suspect the real question though is - Does it matter? - perhaps all the crap and incompitent clubs will vanish, and the strong clubs will remain?

Are there any good or bad caving clubs, and what makes them so, is it number of members, miles of passage found, best hostel (it used to be the better the stomp the better the club)

Plenty of people want to go caving, but get sick of all the in house politics bureaucracy and back stabbing usually associated with caving clubs good or bad.

There are lot of groups out there just happy to get on with it

 

[paul]

Why does nobody want to go caving any longer??? I suspect the real question though is - Does it matter? - perhaps all the crap and incompitent clubs will vanish, and the strong clubs will remain?

Are there any good or bad caving clubs, and what makes them so, is it number of members, miles of passage found, best hostel (it used to be the better the stomp the better the club)

Plenty of people want to go caving, but get sick of all the in house politics bureaucracy and back stabbing usually associated with caving clubs good or bad.

There are lot of groups out there just happy to get on with it

On the other hand, there does seem to be a lot less cavers around in the last few years generally... There was a time when you could almost guarantee queues at pitches in certain caves, bumping into other groups, trying to get the best parking location, etc.

Nowadays it isn't unusual to have a popular cave to yourself in the Peak and Yorkshire Dales (except maybe Giants Hole )

This is confirmed by most of the people I have talked to involved with the retail side as well as instructing.

Also many clubs report that there are very few new members joining - and of those that do join, very, very few are young (say 18 to 25).

Some clubs (including mine) instituted a membership class for longer-serving members so that they don't have to pay a subscription. Now over a third of the membership (total number 100+) don't have to pay any subs with numbers gradually increasing!

 

[JohnK]

Here's a thought if the medal winning clubs get all the money why don't we set up some medals for caving, and maybe a wooden spoon. Categories could include

Sofa Rugby champions, most flavours of sweet vodka, biggest mouthful of insanity sauce (if you were at the unofficial CHECC weekend in Mendips those should make sense, I can't remember when it was but it was this year and there was snow)

On a more serious note, most cave found, most rescues undertaken, fastest trip (safely of course), most new members, most new members who go on trips and stay a year.

I'm sure we could come up with enough categories so that each club could get a medal or at least a medal ever other year. Think of your own ones, serious or silly (silly may be best), if there is a general agreement that this is a good idea, or just a good laugh, I'll speak to people and see what can be done.

JohnK a bloke full of stupid ideas :silly:

 

[cavemancolumbus]

for that matter where is cheec this year?

:drink:
(for some reason they don't have an icon for the flushmaster thingy)

 

[Dave H]

Be carefull of taking the Students Union official types on a trip. We took a few of ours and they didn't like it. At the next Freshers Fair they placed us in an anti-room, and said that we couldn't trawl the main room for new members. As a result we only got 1 new member and were closed down due to lack of interest! :evil:
Ex. De Montfort CC instructor.

 

[cap n chris]

Been offline for a week `cos my computer died - borrowing a mate's to check emails and post this - therefore no input from me on this esteemed and fine site of speleological highjinks... oh, and been a tad busy underground. July's trip no.35 tomorrow. Caving for fun at the weekend - innit great!

 

[George North]

I think it would be naive to think that there aren't some (for want of a better word) crap clubs around. In my opinion being crap only equates with the clubs activity underground - e.g. poor safety pracitice, mucking up formations, very large groups etc.

Unfortunately this can be especially true of university clubs, due to the rapid turnover of members and therefore general lack of experience. Generally what separates the good clubs from the bad, is the presence of a wise old lag, to offer advice. Fortunately most uni clubs aren't crap, and most are very good

It could of course be argued that the existence of any club is a good thing, because it gives people the chance to go caving....:temptation:

WRT the caving comps - We thought about this for a while, but came to the conclusion that in order for it to be ratified by BUSA it would have to be fairly serious, and would therefore go against the fantastic uncompetitive (in a serious way of course!) nature of caving. Probably a good thing to discuss at the CHECC - (Dalesbridge centre (I think?)

 

[George North]

"WRT the caving comps - We thought about this for a while, but came to the conclusion that in order for it to be ratified by BUSA it would have to be fairly serious, and would therefore go against the fantastic uncompetitive (in a serious way of course!) nature of caving. Probably a good thing to discuss at the CHECC - (Dalesbridge centre (I think?)"

'We' being DUSA by the way! :jump:

 

[Brendan]

With regards to good and bad clubs - any club can be either, it doesn´t matter whether they are a university club or not. Some of the worst caving practice I have seen has been non-university clubs - e.g. carbide left down Giants. However, I m perfectly aware that university clubs are not perfect. It just puts the onus on the experienced cavers to teach the freshers what is and isn´t acceptable - ie don´t dump carbide, don´t touch stals etc etc. The sad thing is that the Universities have no way of assessing this, and probably don´t care, imaging all caves are squaild muddy holes (like Layby Pot).

WRT CHECC - I will be there, as will other members of SUSS. It would be good to have a decent discussion about how we can persuade the universities not to stop funding us in favour of rugby and knitting. Hope to see lots of other clubs there to.