A National Caving Museum ? .
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graham
New member
Pitlamp said:
I'm not trying to be anything other than Devil's Advocate here, but what sort of repository and what cost?
If you wish to store potentially fragile and valuable material, including documentation, then a garage or a garden shed simply will not do. You need to ensure that the store is completely dry and has a reasonably stable temperature as a minimum. Commercial rental will cost in the region (ball park only) of a tenner a square foot a year. So a small (200 sq ft) room will cost ?170 per month (plus VAT). On top of that there will be service charges, rates etc. So that's a couple of grand a year for one tiny room!
Can caving afford that?
Pitlamp
Well-known member
A corner of someone's dry garage or barn is better than the corporation tip. If someone had room in a suitable place, and is willing to store it, then why not? A lot of stuff of potential historical interest is probably already in peoples' sheds and garages, so no worse off than if the caving world had a similar central repository. At least if it existed then there's more chance of important stuff being donated by executors of wills of older cavers.
I take your point that commercial storage is expensive and probably inappropriate for British caving's resources. Having said that British cavers are an incredibly resourceful lot. When there's a will there's often a way. Let's not focus so much on the difficulties and instead explore the possibilities.
I take your point that commercial storage is expensive and probably inappropriate for British caving's resources. Having said that British cavers are an incredibly resourceful lot. When there's a will there's often a way. Let's not focus so much on the difficulties and instead explore the possibilities.
menacer
Active member
We have adequate storage space in the numerous caving hostels around the uk
Duplication seems to be one major problem for most clubs with their library space..
The Wessex was looking into the possibility of a building extension, namely to store all the duplicate journals...(awaits a flaming)
So we store ours, the cravens, the SWCC. etc etc...and they store theirs as well. Whats the point... No-one can store everything.
This is why we end up looking for large facilities..
If the documents were shared between the clubs more openly, the clubs with premises could sustain adequate storage for a long long time...
Everything would need to go online ( an inventory)...and be accessible to all.....so if any research into anything were needed, you would know which club had it where...then contact the librarian.....and so on....
Yes its an expense in itself, but any solution is going to require money and time....at least if its not all in one place, no (unlikely) risk of fire wiping out the whole lot, or complaints that its the opposite end of the country for others.
All clubs have librarians,the human element, a storage facility is very limiting and has no-one.
Duplication seems to be one major problem for most clubs with their library space..
The Wessex was looking into the possibility of a building extension, namely to store all the duplicate journals...(awaits a flaming)
So we store ours, the cravens, the SWCC. etc etc...and they store theirs as well. Whats the point... No-one can store everything.
This is why we end up looking for large facilities..
If the documents were shared between the clubs more openly, the clubs with premises could sustain adequate storage for a long long time...
Everything would need to go online ( an inventory)...and be accessible to all.....so if any research into anything were needed, you would know which club had it where...then contact the librarian.....and so on....
Yes its an expense in itself, but any solution is going to require money and time....at least if its not all in one place, no (unlikely) risk of fire wiping out the whole lot, or complaints that its the opposite end of the country for others.
All clubs have librarians,the human element, a storage facility is very limiting and has no-one.
whitelackington
New member
A very good point Graham, what about approaching "The Time Machine" in Weston Super Maregraham said:
they already have lots of mining stuff, I am sure Chris Richards would not be adverse.
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Menacer has a good point; it doesn't all need to be in one place necessarily; indeed there are as (s)he points out, some advantages with having a divided collection. What matters is co-ordination. At the moment we have all sorts of stuff all over the place; very few people know what's available or where to get at it. There is no central person to turn to if one is trying properly to dispose of an important item. When you meet a retired caver who has something of interest there's nowhere to suggest they should consider donating it (perhaps in a will). Wouldn't it be great if some simple system could be sorted out?
Enough! I'm off diggin' now.
Enough! I'm off diggin' now.
W
wormster
Guest
graham said:
I would disagree with you there graham, compton martin isa nice secure little mine, I'm sure that there are others that are just as, if not more more secure.
Peter Burgess
New member
I assume we are discussing here a pile of old caving tut - ancient equipment and stuff. Well, I've got a shed with exactly that sort of thing in it, and it get used from time to time. It isn't locked up and nobody has nicked any of it. In fact, isn't it a good idea for ancient museum pieces to be kept in working condition and used from time to time? Like old musical instruments, or veteran cars? Why don't you send all this tut to me, and I'll keep it in my shed, use it now and again, and offer myself to any exhibition who wants to have me standing about wearing it for the public to gaze at.
Peter Burgess
New member
And if its old diving stuff, I don't mind going 'glug glug' as I make an exhibition of myself.
kay
Well-known member
An analogy: historic garden plants:
There are dozens of 'National Collections' in gardens across the country, but a centralised database saying who has got what, and checking that they are properly identified. Each holder of a national collection is growing something they particularly like, and have suitable cultivation conditions for. No need to find a huge piece of land somewhere which has the right cultivation conditions for the whole range. Many of the national collections are in private gardens, some of them tiny.
The point of a single repository is to be able to find things. But we can have a 'virtual repository' which simply says where to find things (and where is the best place to put new things). Menacer is right - dispersed collection, central information base.
There are dozens of 'National Collections' in gardens across the country, but a centralised database saying who has got what, and checking that they are properly identified. Each holder of a national collection is growing something they particularly like, and have suitable cultivation conditions for. No need to find a huge piece of land somewhere which has the right cultivation conditions for the whole range. Many of the national collections are in private gardens, some of them tiny.
The point of a single repository is to be able to find things. But we can have a 'virtual repository' which simply says where to find things (and where is the best place to put new things). Menacer is right - dispersed collection, central information base.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Pitlamp said:
Here's a solution. It's a daft idea; forget it.
ian.p
Active member
well if no one tries or even thinks about it then of course it wont work cos no ones tried to make it work (thats logic see) i dont see why it couldnt work and i certainly dont see why people should be discoureged from trying to make it work.
shourly show caves like DYO and wookey etc are the people to get involved it seems the most likley place any old gear is likley to be displayed in though prehaps it would be worth the BCA oficialy owning the material with it on loan to the showcaves just incase the showcave companies fold and the show caves may have the money to employ a librairan or recorder of some sort especialy if they were given some sort of fun name like national caving heritige center ir some such that would sound good in there broucher. these are the places that would have the resources to make a sheme work me thinks.
shourly show caves like DYO and wookey etc are the people to get involved it seems the most likley place any old gear is likley to be displayed in though prehaps it would be worth the BCA oficialy owning the material with it on loan to the showcaves just incase the showcave companies fold and the show caves may have the money to employ a librairan or recorder of some sort especialy if they were given some sort of fun name like national caving heritige center ir some such that would sound good in there broucher. these are the places that would have the resources to make a sheme work me thinks.
cap n chris
Well-known member
If the potential exhibits are destined to become landfill, rather than binding any museum's management with caveats and ownership "contracts", you simply donate stuff to any museum with a caving section to do with as they see fit. If stuff ends up on display.... bonus! If not, nothing has been lost by trying.
To reinvent the wheel is another matter. Especially if it is done at the expense of BCA (cavers) in the face of evidence suggesting that it would be a folly doomed to failure.
To reinvent the wheel is another matter. Especially if it is done at the expense of BCA (cavers) in the face of evidence suggesting that it would be a folly doomed to failure.
Peter Burgess
New member
There is an awful lot more to a museum than a building containing a collection of items for people to admire. A museum needs a properly thought out acquisition and disposal policy. It needs a properly run body to look after it. It needs a body of people to devote a great deal of effort and time to looking after it. It needs to be able to provide appropriate conditions to encourage the conservation and preservation of the items it holds. All this costs money. Without it and you are putting much of what is held there at risk.
Many years ago, there was a privately-run watermill museum near me. I happened to have found something of interest to watermill enthusiasts. I didn't want it so I took it along and gave it to this museum. Within five years this watermill museum had become a posh restaurant. I wouldn't be at all surprised if my donation, along with a lot else, didn't end up in a skip.
Its very easy to enthuse about setting up a museum as long as you are not the person who is going to get involved. And like it it not, unless a museum is going to get outside financial help from someone, it has to be financially sound, or you are wasting everyone's time and effort.
Many years ago, there was a privately-run watermill museum near me. I happened to have found something of interest to watermill enthusiasts. I didn't want it so I took it along and gave it to this museum. Within five years this watermill museum had become a posh restaurant. I wouldn't be at all surprised if my donation, along with a lot else, didn't end up in a skip.
Its very easy to enthuse about setting up a museum as long as you are not the person who is going to get involved. And like it it not, unless a museum is going to get outside financial help from someone, it has to be financially sound, or you are wasting everyone's time and effort.
Bob Mehew
Well-known member
What about a virtual museum? I find it curious that people want to keep the item, when usually all you can do is look at the thing but not touch it. If one took lots of photos of the item (together with some of it in use) it would be a part way solution which would be much cheaper than the gear itself and at least would keep the idea for history. Whilst I know there are problems about security of keeping electronic material (especially on Les William's machines), the cost of hiring such space is not that great when compared to the cost of keeping a building.
Just to add my two pen,orth.
It's a good idea in principle but as has been mentioned in earlier posts small exhibitions exist in places such as Wookey already.
Given the logistics of setting up a dedicated museum and the limited interest due to caving being a minority sport would a sensible way forward not be to set up some sort of registered refectory with exhibits catalogued and let out on semi permanent loan to places like Wookey, Cheddar Caves etc for them to display.
Contact could be made with other interested parties such as existing museums who may wish to put a display up on the subject of caving.
Displays could be moved from site to site periodically so that the same exhibits were not on show at the same place for ever.
There would be some cost involved in transporting the stuff around which could possibly be off set by donations, but the problem of storage cost overall would be solved as the displays would be set up in existing venues.
It would involve someone co-ordinating things centrally but it could work.
It's a good idea in principle but as has been mentioned in earlier posts small exhibitions exist in places such as Wookey already.
Given the logistics of setting up a dedicated museum and the limited interest due to caving being a minority sport would a sensible way forward not be to set up some sort of registered refectory with exhibits catalogued and let out on semi permanent loan to places like Wookey, Cheddar Caves etc for them to display.
Contact could be made with other interested parties such as existing museums who may wish to put a display up on the subject of caving.
Displays could be moved from site to site periodically so that the same exhibits were not on show at the same place for ever.
There would be some cost involved in transporting the stuff around which could possibly be off set by donations, but the problem of storage cost overall would be solved as the displays would be set up in existing venues.
It would involve someone co-ordinating things centrally but it could work.
