Access in private or democratic groups.

[Ian Adams]

I rather suspect this line of questioning was done explicitly to cause trouble and I rather expect the answer to the Charterhouse question was well known by the poster (as is the answer to the question posed about CAL) to set the organisation of CAL up for a fall and cause a bucket load more arguing.

Very mischievous.



Ian

 

[Rhys]

You suspect wrongly. I'm merely exploring the issues raised in this topic.

 

[droid]

But choosing not to ask the Directors of CCC directly. I'm with Ian on this one.

 

[Rhys]

Who?

 

[royfellows]

I don't think for one minute that this website needs the organisation of CAL as an excuse for a bucket load of more arguing.

Anyway, in my naive and blissful ignorance I will take the question at face value and give an honest answer.

It was decided at the outset that the ideal number of directors would be about 3, I personally favour an odd number for obvious reasons

The company was formed by Stuart France and me, who being the original subscribers and guarantors for a company limited by guarantee are the owners of company as long as we live.
Dave Tyson was asked to join us after formation.

In the event that one of us falls by the wayside there will be a need for replacement in which case the remainder of the board would ask someone of reasonable qualification and who was willing to participate in the dark conspiracy of maintaining a policy of free and open access to the mines we control.

Seconds out


Addendum
Just advised by the website that there has been 3 postings while I was typing this out, no comment.

 

[royfellows]

Just changed my posting signature, can I have some 'Likes'

 

[droid]

Yes.

And probably more effective.....

 

[Ed W]

Not directly CAL, but recently I visited Cwmystwyth and contacted Roy through his role with CMT.  Not only did I get a reply, but the information provided was useful and allowed us to have a really great day out in the mines with only a couple of days notice and no fuss and bother whatsoever.  A performance well in excess of several "democratic" cave access bodies I have dealt with over the last few decades.

I have personal experience of keen young cavers being put of the sport/science/activity due to the perceived need to jump through hoops to visit some underground sites.  If there were more places like Cwmystwyth I have little doubt that we might be able to retain a few more of these people.  I do fear that the reduction in numbers of cavers, if it continues, will result in simply not enough of us to look after the UK's underground.  Yes there are places that need protection, but this needs to be balanced against ease of access on a case by case basis.  I have not yet used the CAL system, but I was most impressed by the CMT one that Roy is also involved with.

 

[Aubrey]

Both Charterhouse CC Ltd and Cave Access Ltd show what can be done to open cave access. I am not suggesting that either is the perfect answer that can be applied to all caves and mines but I believe access can be negotiated to most sites without recourse to the sledge hammer of legal threats or parliamentary lobbying.
Ownership and control of land is continually changing and sooner or later even the most intransigent landowner will retire or leave this earth. The time will come to have a new attempt at negotiating access to any site previously denied.
If a few sites are not immediately available to the masses then it could be a good thing that those sites will be conserved for future generations. There are plenty of caves and digs currently available for exploration and exploitation by current cavers. It has to be remembered that our activities are frequently destructive to the natural environment and the only sure way of conservation is total access control (denial). As long as the currently unavailable sites are in the minority then I am in favour of preserving these for the future.
Such (short term) access control will benefit future cavers and scientists.

 

[cavemanmike]

Not directly CAL, but recently I visited Cwmystwyth and contacted Roy through his role with CMT.  Not only did I get a reply, but the information provided was useful and allowed us to have a really great day out in the mines with only a couple of days notice and no fuss and bother whatsoever.  A performance well in excess of several "democratic" cave access bodies I have dealt with over the last few decades.

I have personal experience of keen young cavers being put of the sport/science/activity due to the perceived need to jump through hoops to visit some underground sites.  If there were more places like Cwmystwyth I have little doubt that we might be able to retain a few more of these people.  I do fear that the reduction in numbers of cavers, if it continues, will result in simply not enough of us to look after the UK's underground.  Yes there are places that need protection, but this needs to be balanced against ease of access on a case by case basis.  I have not yet used the CAL system, but I was most impressed by the CMT one that Roy is also involved with.

if only the milwr tunnel was as easily accessed

 

[Peter Burgess]

So, back on topic; The Charterhouse Caving Company who were mentioned earlier in the thread; do they have a procedure for replacing their company directors/personnel? What do they intend to do if one goes rogue?

I could direct the query to one of the company people or look at their website, but I don't want to. I'm asking here. Does anyone know?

Rhys

The obvious person to respond would be the CCC secretary. Don't expect a reply in the near future!

 

[Ian Adams]

The obvious person to respond would be the CCC secretary. Don't expect a reply in the near future!

That is bordering on libel.

The CCC Secretary has proven to be very efficient in executing his duties and certainly with attending to correspondence. He was also very quick to answer on this forum.

May I suggest a retraction?

Ian

 

[Rhys]

Some confusion here I think. There's numerous CCCs in caving. I wish people would spend a few seconds spelling it out rather than abbreviating.

eg:
Cambrian CC
Charterhouse CC
Croydon CC
Cheddar CC
etc

 

[Peter Burgess]

I wish people would also spent a few seconds looking at the context of a post, which is about the Charterhouse CC - so in order to avoid confusing those with quick-draw reactions, yes, I meant the Charterhouse CC, Ian. May I also suggest a retraction? Please?

 

[Ian Adams]

Rhys has largely saved your bacon.

"CCC" has been used to refer to Cambrian Caving Council throughout this thread and that is how I interpreted. It is certainly how I used the acronym in my reply.

I have no knowledge of the abilities of the Charterhouse Secretary to whom it now seems you are referring and you still may wish to adjust your statement (your choice and prerogative).

I don't want to retract my statement because it may still be borderline libel. However, I do apologise for mis-interpreting to whom you were referring to.

Good enough?

Ian

 

[PeteHall]

I think Peter is probably fairly accurate in his assertion that the Charterhouse Caving Company secretary is unlikely to reply on here any time soon. I'm not sure where you would find a list of company officers, but the person concerned used to post frequently on this forum, but has not done so for some time... 

I don't think this is any statement about the abilities of the secretary to do their job, just a statement about the medium of communication.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Indeed. It is a good policy to listen carefully to debates, re-read stuff you are not sure about, then consider a response before going anywhere near the "post" button. I guess is it built into some people's nature to find offence all over the place.

 

[estelle]

I think Peter is probably fairly accurate in his assertion that the Charterhouse Caving Company secretary is unlikely to reply on here any time soon. I'm not sure where you would find a list of company officers, but the person concerned used to post frequently on this forum, but has not done so for some time... 

I don't think this is any statement about the abilities of the secretary to do their job, just a statement about the medium of communication.

http://charterhouse-caving-company.ltd.uk/index.htm - about half way down the page is the current secretary details and a contact link should you need to contact them.
That page also has the details of the member clubs and a bit of detail about the company.
If you want to find out the company directors past and present, try companies house website - https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03036639/officers

 

[droid]

Indeed. It is a good policy to listen carefully to debates, re-read stuff you are not sure about, then consider a response before going anywhere near the "post" button. I guess is it built into some people's nature to find offence all over the place.

Taking offence at something on UKC?

Who'd have thought....lol

 

[Brains]

"As has already been stated CAL policy is that access to the mines on its schedule should be as free and easy as possible, and bearing in mind that there are no conservation issues, does anyone feel this this should be done differently?"

Having seen the thread on AN, jogging our collective memories on this question, I shall respond with my twopenneth.
I feel Roy and CAL are doing the best job possible in the circumstances, and certainly a lot better than many other access bodies have managed. As the thing shows no sign of being broken, I dont feel there is a need to offer changes or reccomendations. I look forward to more mines being added to the portfolio.
Well done one and all

I am however puzzled as to the reason this thread was started in the first place