Here is a bit more where I attempt to address the points raised, but I omit deliberately where he answers his own questions.
Jopo said:
CAL policy can be whatever the directors say - we the great unwashed have no say in the policy.
....................... when you mention other conservation bodies. I ask you and others to remember that there was almost no problem for the majority of cavers who gained access through them for years and that every one of those bodies can be influenced by active cavers. CAL cannot.
Isn't this exactly what we are doing, my logic here being based on the many posts supporting our policy against yours and one other that does not.
I still think that this is democratic, if it isn't then what is?
Jopo said:
What mines are now accessible that were not before CAL. I suspect one or two were but talking to some mine enthusiasts find that many on the list never had a problem.
Under By Laws NRW can prosecute anyone entering mines on their land without permission, so all access prior to CAL was covert.
In 1986? a group leader was prosecuted for taking a party into Rhiwbach. This mine is now gated and fitted with combination locks which were originally accessed by outdoor groups, these are now controlled by CAL who under CAL policy of making access as free and easy as possible give out the combination on request.
Trips scheduled into Parc on the north Wales NAMHO field meet had to be cancelled due to non permission.
The CAL agreement for everywhere with the exception of Temple Mine (formally owned by CCW) is not with NRW but with the Welsh government, this logically leads to the conclusion that ownership is in the Welsh government.