I'm sorry Jagman - but I dont give a toss if someone goes underground in shorts and T-shirt (done in myself), but people who smoke underground - that's completely different - my shorts dont pollute the atmospere and render it unbreathable for other people (seriously - breathing someone else's smoke underground is disgusting). :twisted:
Access to caves and mines in the Forest of Dean
- Thread starter Ship-badger
- Start date
Ship-badger
Member
prahja said:
I couldn't agree more.
Ouan
Member
Jagman said:
Getting off-topic from the FoD, but what sort of self rescuer do you use? I thought these only protected against carbon monoxide and were issued to coal miners in case of underground fires. If you have a self rescuer that protects against other gases, especially carbon dioxide, I would be very interested in knowing the details.
Ouan said:
MSA, forget the model but will find it for you. Some types are effectively a filter, the one I have apparently contains "chemically bound oxygen"
Once opened they have an endurance of about 40minutes.
The bad news is they sell for about £300 :shock: and have a shelf life of 10years. With the MSA type self rescuer it depends how old it is newer ones (look identical) have a much longer endurance.
A
andymorgan
Guest
If you use your self rescuer, then there wont be any passive smoking problems 
cap n chris
Well-known member
I used to smoke but love caving so much I gave up `cos it's not morally acceptable to smoke underground - OK, so there's no law against it but if you smoke anywhere near me in a cave expect to get a face full of water and a mouth full of insults. BTW smoking in caves/mines with bats in renders you potentially* liable to a maximum fine of £5,000 plus six months in prison for disturbing them.
* But you're unlikely to get prosecuted `cos the police don't usually lurk in caves.
* But you're unlikely to get prosecuted `cos the police don't usually lurk in caves.
Peter Burgess
New member
My only experience of getting underground in the FOD was at the NAMHO field meet in 1993(?) The locals went out of their way to give us good time. I therefore have no beef with them, and have not heard of any reason why I should have.
These are my thoughts on access.
Fact: People who own mines or caves have the right to impose access conditions on their property, just as I can decide who I will allow into my house and who I will not.
If a group of people, whether loosely affiliated or properly constituted, is prepared to administer access on behalf of an owner, firstly it takes an admistrative burden off the owner, and secondly it provides a caver-friendly body to whom I can go for advice. I would far rather do this than deal with the owner directly, as cavers are likely to be much more knowledgeable in most cases than the owner, when it comes to the finer points of access, conservation etc.
To intimate that as someone from outside the FOD you know better than the local caving community what is best regarding access etc smacks a little of arrogance.
We live in the real world. Owners exist. Clubs exist. For many sites, they are inevitably going to come to some arrangement or other. Like it or not, insurance also exists. If I am required to take it out via www.fillmywallet.com insurance company in order to enjoy my caving to the full then I will do so, although I may resent having to part with the cash. If I was not insured, but was required to have it to get underground at a particular site then I should be prepared to accept having access denied. It is my choice to have insurance or to not bother with it. My choice has consequences.
Only owners have a true right of access. Everyone else has the privilege of access granted to them. It might be described as a right of access, but that 'right' can be removed at the owners whim.
So, have I brought the discussion back on topic?
These are my thoughts on access.
Fact: People who own mines or caves have the right to impose access conditions on their property, just as I can decide who I will allow into my house and who I will not.
If a group of people, whether loosely affiliated or properly constituted, is prepared to administer access on behalf of an owner, firstly it takes an admistrative burden off the owner, and secondly it provides a caver-friendly body to whom I can go for advice. I would far rather do this than deal with the owner directly, as cavers are likely to be much more knowledgeable in most cases than the owner, when it comes to the finer points of access, conservation etc.
To intimate that as someone from outside the FOD you know better than the local caving community what is best regarding access etc smacks a little of arrogance.
We live in the real world. Owners exist. Clubs exist. For many sites, they are inevitably going to come to some arrangement or other. Like it or not, insurance also exists. If I am required to take it out via www.fillmywallet.com insurance company in order to enjoy my caving to the full then I will do so, although I may resent having to part with the cash. If I was not insured, but was required to have it to get underground at a particular site then I should be prepared to accept having access denied. It is my choice to have insurance or to not bother with it. My choice has consequences.
Only owners have a true right of access. Everyone else has the privilege of access granted to them. It might be described as a right of access, but that 'right' can be removed at the owners whim.
So, have I brought the discussion back on topic?
jasonbirder
Member
The Landowner in this case is Forest Enterprises who are an agency of the Forestry Comission - which are a government body...which means in a sense that you & I the taxpayer are ultimately the landowner!
Its obviously not an issue for an outsider like me - access can always be arranged in advance at the same time as accomodation when its an away trip - but if it was my local patch and I couldn't set up an off the cuff evening trip when I fancied it then i'd be unhappy!
So I can understand it when people on here get a bit hot under the collar about an issue that effects them!
By the way The Forest of Dean is a fantastic caving region - I loved Slaughter House Stream and can't wait to go back and see more next year!
Its obviously not an issue for an outsider like me - access can always be arranged in advance at the same time as accomodation when its an away trip - but if it was my local patch and I couldn't set up an off the cuff evening trip when I fancied it then i'd be unhappy!
So I can understand it when people on here get a bit hot under the collar about an issue that effects them!
By the way The Forest of Dean is a fantastic caving region - I loved Slaughter House Stream and can't wait to go back and see more next year!
Peter Burgess
New member
a VERY loose sense!!!
My taxes pay for the defence of this country, but I don't expect to have the right to wander around an active military site. My taxes pay for the NHS but I don't have to right to wander as I please into every nook and cranny at the local hospital. If I really did want to visit these places, I would get in touch with the appropriate body. And, yes I have been round an active military site having obtained the permission of the right person to do so.
cap n chris
Well-known member
:shock: ... Shurely shome mishtake.
cap n chris
Well-known member
... and there was me thinking it was called Slaughter Stream Cave AKA Wet Sink but what do I know?
Next thing you'll know is that the longest presently known cave on Mendip is called Swindons Hole.
Next thing you'll know is that the longest presently known cave on Mendip is called Swindons Hole.
AndyF
New member
What I would like to see is a web site detailing the access arrangements, contacts etc. for all the FoD caves... A bit like the Hitch'n'hike one for the peaks at:-
http://w01-0504.web.dircon.net/pdc/caves.htm
I googled aroound for FODCCAG and couldn't find anything. This would help a lot I think...
http://w01-0504.web.dircon.net/pdc/caves.htm
I googled aroound for FODCCAG and couldn't find anything. This would help a lot I think...
