Access to caves and mines in the Forest of Dean

[graham]

I can see why, on conservation grounds, any access body would ban carbide. But above and beyond that they should not be prescribing what lighting system I use.

I know loads of cavers who use home made lighting systems. Where do they go to get their Mines of Lakeland Exploration Society certificate of approval?

So it is acceptable to do a 700 feet ladder and abseil descent in a lead mine using a Maglite as long as you have BCA Insurance?
And before you ask, yes I have seen more than the odd person who feels their Maglite fit for purpose.

Acceptable to whom?

Acceptable to the people who have to spend 24 hours in a freezing cave rescuing the people who are underrquipped I would imagine...

Hum, how many rescues have taken place of people whose maglites have failed?

How many rescues have taken place 'cos people's hired lamps have failed?

 

[AndyF]

[quote="graham
How many rescues have taken place 'cos people's hired lamps have failed?[/quote]

Fair point...! :?

 

[graham]

That came out of a conversation in the pub last night, we were talking about lights 'cos a couple of the students are buying them this w/e whilst up at the bash in Yorkshire.

It was noted that a certain well-known commercial caving set-up refuses to use lights manufactured by a certain well-known supplier 'cos they do not reckon they are robust enough whereas another well-known outlet will hire lights made by that self-same supplier.

All I am saying here is that everybody's perceptions of acceptable are different and I do not want my standards in such matters to be dictated by others.

 

[AndyF]

As an aside, I was once in Carlswark and met two guys wearing cycling helmets. They had one (yes, ONE) lamp with them that they had hired "at a nearby cafe"...

They were carrying it in a plastic carrier bag, because to hire a belt was an extra 50p....

They hadn't considered the consequences of lamp failure..... :shock:

 

[paul]

I can see why, on conservation grounds, any access body would ban carbide. But above and beyond that they should not be prescribing what lighting system I use.

I know loads of cavers who use home made lighting systems. Where do they go to get their Mines of Lakeland Exploration Society certificate of approval?

So it is acceptable to do a 700 feet ladder and abseil descent in a lead mine using a Maglite as long as you have BCA Insurance?
And before you ask, yes I have seen more than the odd person who feels their Maglite fit for purpose.

Acceptable to whom?

Acceptable to the people who have to spend 24 hours in a freezing cave rescuing the people who are underrquipped I would imagine...

Hum, how many rescues have taken place of people whose maglites have failed?

How many rescues have taken place 'cos people's hired lamps have failed?

ALthough not Maglites or hired lamps, have a look at http://www.derbyshirecro.org.uk/call_outs.html incident 284.

 

[graham]

Paul. Those three showed more ingenuity and "exploring spirit" than any number of bods taken underground on school trips etc.

I reckon that they might just have what it takes, if introduced to a decent club.

 

[andymorgan]

I know people who started caving wearing bobble hats and carrying torches. They didn't know about caving clubs and how to join them, which is something that need addressing...l

 

[paul]

Paul. Those three showed more ingenuity and "exploring spirit" than any number of bods taken underground on school trips etc.

I reckon that they might just have what it takes, if introduced to a decent club.

I agree. I liked the head gear! - sounds like they probably did end up joining a club - I wonder what happened to them?

 

[emgee]

I can see why, on conservation grounds, any access body would ban carbide. But above and beyond that they should not be prescribing what lighting system I use.

I know loads of cavers who use home made lighting systems. Where do they go to get their Mines of Lakeland Exploration Society certificate of approval?

So it is acceptable to do a 700 feet ladder and abseil descent in a lead mine using a Maglite as long as you have BCA Insurance?
And before you ask, yes I have seen more than the odd person who feels their Maglite fit for purpose.

Acceptable to whom?

Acceptable to the people who have to spend 24 hours in a freezing cave rescuing the people who are underrquipped I would imagine...

Hum, how many rescues have taken place of people whose maglites have failed?

How many rescues have taken place 'cos people's hired lamps have failed?

ALthough not Maglites or hired lamps, have a look at http://www.derbyshirecro.org.uk/call_outs.html incident 284.

Looking at the whole page it would seem that the Blue John mine is the
most dangerous cave in the peak

 

[Ship-badger]

What I would like to see is a web site detailing the access arrangements, contacts etc. for all the FoD caves

AndyF. I agree that this would be a good idea. The access arrangements for the area are not really very complex.

Otter Hole-phone John Hutchinson-01291 626376

Slaughter/Wetsink-Andy Clark-01600 716970

Clearwell Iron Mines and Wigpool Iron Mines-these are galed (leased) by the Crown to Ray and Johnathon Wright, the proprietors of Clearwell Caves, a tourist attraction. Access to Clearwell and Wigpool mines is by arrangement with them.

Miss Graces Lane cave-Jan Karvik-01291 625741

Access to all of the other mines and caves in the Forest of Dean is through the Forest of Dean Cave Conservation and Access Group (FoDCCAG). Telephone the permit secretary, Dave Tuffley, on 01594 824343.

If I have got anything wrong here Dave will have the correct information.

I know that in a perfect world, all caves and mines would be open access, but the world isn't like that anymore. Under British law, landowners are liable, and so are justifiably nervous about having people on their land. FoDCCAG have negotiated an access agreement with Forest Enterprise that safeguards our access, and doesn't incur too much in the way of paperwork and hassle. People who come to the Forest with their bolt-cutters or hacksaws risk ruining this agreement for the majority of cavers who are prepared to abide by the agreement. If we don't abide by access agreements, wherever they apply, then we risk provoking landowners into taking the sort of drastic action that one recently took in Belgium. At a cave where cavers had repeatedly ignored a landowners requests, the landowner had the cave entrance filled in with concrete. Get through that with your hacksaw.

If you want to make a real difference the you should lobby your MP for a change in the law, so that landowners cannot be sued by people using their land for sporting and recreational purposes. I believe that they have a system something like this in Eire. Perhaps somebody can tell me whether it works or not.

 

[AndyF]

Perhaps someone who knows better can clarify, but I had the impression the PI insurance didnt apply caver to caver, only landowner / third party to caver?

This may be b**x but I think it goes..

If the caver is in your group, they are second party. If they were in a different group then they would be a third party..

 

[AndyF]

breathing someone else's smoke underground is disgusting). :twisted:

I couldn't agree more.

Best phone up Tony Blair, and get him to pass a law against it....

 

[cap n chris]

Best phone up Tony Blair, and get him to pass a law against it

1st: I don't quite think our legislation really gets created like that and...
2nd: If there are bats in the cave then the 1981 Wildlife & Countryside Protection Act would cover it on the grounds that it could rank as "disturbing" a bat; max penalty = fine £5,000 + six months in chokey

 

[Brains]

How about shouting "Oi Dracula, me names Buffy and I have a sharp pencil and I am not afraid to use it!"

I thought most of the Mendip bats could only survive with copious amounts of bang fumes and high CO2 levels!!

Lucky the old miners didnt have to worry about that, what with black powder, clay pipes filled with rope ends, tallow dips, fire setting etc...

Seriously though, smoking should really be abstained from underground - when I was a smoker I was guilty of this a few times and now regret having done it. From reading old accounts of caving (and non-coal mining) smoking used to be quite acceptable, and the flying mice survived all that the pre nanny state polluters could throw at them. Pity they seem to be stuggling now, perhaps modern building techniques are somewhat to blame as well...

 

[AndyF]

How about shouting "Oi Dracula, me names Buffy and I have a sharp pencil and I am not afraid to use it!"

I'd rather be shouting, "Oi, Buffy, me names Dracula and I have a sharp pencil, what about letting be use it fnar! fnar!" :shock:

 

[graham]

Perhaps someone who knows better can clarify, but I had the impression the PI insurance didnt apply caver to caver, only landowner / third party to caver?

This may be b**x but I think it goes..

If the caver is in your group, they are second party. If they were in a different group then they would be a third party..

Aye that's bollox. FYI teh BCA policy specifically covers member to member cases. see

http://www.british-caving.org.uk/membership/insurance/06C0546_synopsis_v8.pdf