All-Party Parliamentary Group on Volunteer Rescue

[Inglesport]

Write to your MP!

And ask them to support cave and mountain rescue.

We don't normally mention political things but in parliament there is a new, all-party group of MP's which will cover volunteer rescue - including Cave, Mountain, Lowland, Coastguard, Lifeboats and more.

Ask your MP to show their support and help these essential services.

1. Find your MP here: https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP
2. Then email them and ask them to:
   • Please attend the Volunteer Rescue All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) Drop-in Session on Tuesday, 18th March and consider joining the APPG as a member.
3. Event Details:
   • Date: Tuesday, 18th March
   • Drop-in Session: 15:00 – 17:00 PM
   • Location: Room O, Portcullis House

NOTE: The inaugural meeting of the APPG will be held immediately after the drop-in, from 17:00 – 18:30.

Rescue teams like Cave, Mountain, Lowland, Coastguard and Lifeboats rely on volunteers to provide vital, lifesaving services across the UK. Please help give them parliamentary support.

 

[zzzzzzed]

Is it wise to encourage MPs to get involved?

They'll probably just introduce loads of new regulations, red tape and diversity targets. Propose fining people for getting lost and make all fun illegal unless you are supervised by a qualified professional. We will have to file risk assessments with a government department before venturing outdoors and wear high vis jackets at all times.

 

[Pitlamp]

The main thing is not to let them threaten the voluntary ethos of cave & mountain rescue, which has been jealously guarded for decades.

 

[aricooperdavis]

The purpose of the APPG is to represent the interests of volunteer rescue in parliament, not to attempt to govern or legislate volunteer rescue. I absolutely support this call to get MPs interested and involved, so that they can support volunteer rescue services in the ways that they need.

For example, I'd love it if volunteer rescue groups could be except from paying for DBS checks for their members, and I'll contact my MP and ask whether they could support this.

 

[pwhole]

The main thing is not to let them threaten the voluntary ethos of cave & mountain rescue, which has been jealously guarded for decades.

Why can't they be paid for their work though?

 

[Pitlamp]

Because that leads to bills for rescuees, so they delay calling out the team, which in some cases leads to a far worse outcome than necessary.

 

[Graigwen]

Why can't they be paid for their work though?

If payment is made, then immediately the payer will start asking about value for money and may want to control how work is done. At present I am a volunteer for a ResearchNet group attached to an NHS Trust. We have resisted payment as it would limit our ability to do useful work outside the normal parameters.
.

 

[Pitlamp]

Cave rescue is essentially a self help arrangement and caving is still largely an amateur pastime. A likely spin off of it ever becoming "professionalised" is a requirement for insurance (as on the continent). Along with that would go the worry of whether you're actually covered if you've not stuck to the letter of some approved code of practice. That would stifle innovation.

It's not broken so no great need to tinker.

 

[Pitlamp]

There still remains, of course, the need for funding of teams.

 

[aricooperdavis]

Because that leads to bills for rescuees, so they delay calling out the team, which in some cases leads to a far worse outcome than necessary.

The coastguard don't bill rescuees. Paying rescue services doesn't necessarily mean charging rescuees.

 

[Pitlamp]

It's what happens on the continent for cave rescue. And with the likes of Rachel Reeves in charge of the county's purse strings, I'm sure that model would appeal.

 

[Steve Clark]

There are considerable advantages to a team not being ‘at work’. Whilst I’m sure teams are using good judgement and do things as safely as they can, the reality is that if you want to lift the lid on Notts 2 whilst being paid, you’re gonna have to throw the Health & Safety at Work Act and all its secondary regulations out the window on Leck Fell road.

Diving rescue? Enlarging passages? Working in boulder chokes? Genuine risks. Everything about it is much better on a volunteer basis. Morally and legally.

 

[ChrisB]

Everything about it is much better on a volunteer basis.

Agreed. It's interesting that the crew of the RNLI lifeboat at Spurn Head live there, because it's so isolated, and the road has been eroded and gets waves breaking over it in a storm. They are, as a result, full time RNLI employees - but they're employed to maintain the lifeboat and the rest of the facilities. When they go on a shout they're volunteers.

 

[pwhole]

Thanks for the responses all - it's always intrigued me whether it was the ambiguity of the situation being present as volunteers rather than workers that allowed more freedom to do what's necessary at the time. I certainly get the more than enough of the other end of this at work, so I enjoy the flexibility that voluntary work brings. Interestingly some large landowners welcome volunteer work on capping mine shafts, whereas others insist on commercial, specifically for the insurance cover it brings, so it's complicated.

 

[hannahb]

The coastguard don't bill rescuees. Paying rescue services doesn't necessarily mean charging rescuees.

Coastguard rescuers are volunteers, aren't they?

 

[hannahb]

There are considerable advantages to a team not being ‘at work’. Whilst I’m sure teams are using good judgement and do things as safely as they can, the reality is that if you want to lift the lid on Notts 2 whilst being paid, you’re gonna have to throw the Health & Safety at Work Act and all its secondary regulations out the window on Leck Fell road.

Diving rescue? Enlarging passages? Working in boulder chokes? Genuine risks. Everything about it is much better on a volunteer basis. Morally and legally.

If an organisation has a single employee or is headed by a self employed person, it has the same responsibilities to volunteers as it does or would to employees.

 

[LadyMud]

It's interesting that the crew of the RNLI lifeboat at Spurn Head live there, because it's so isolated, and the road has been eroded and gets waves breaking over it in a storm. They are, as a result, full time RNLI employees - but they're employed to maintain the lifeboat and the rest of the facilities. When they go on a shout they're volunteers.

It doesn't detract from your point about volunteering, but the Spurn Head lifeboat station has now been re-located:

https://rnli.org/news-and-media/2023/june/02/humber-rnli-moves-from-spurn-point-to-grimsby

 

[paul]

Coastguard rescuers are volunteers, aren't they?

I'm pretty sure that the Coastguard helicopter crews who attend mountain rescues, among other rescues, are decidedly not volunteers...

 

[aricooperdavis]

Coastguard rescuers are volunteers, aren't they?

Some are, but even they are reimbursed for their time. A recent employment tribunal even ruled that they count as workers due to this financial relationship.

 

[cavetroll]

There are considerable advantages to a team not being ‘at work’. Whilst I’m sure teams are using good judgement and do things as safely as they can, the reality is that if you want to lift the lid on Notts 2 whilst being paid, you’re gonna have to throw the Health & Safety at Work Act and all its secondary regulations out the window on Leck Fell road.

Diving rescue? Enlarging passages? Working in boulder chokes? Genuine risks. Everything about it is much better on a volunteer basis. Morally and legally.

I'm not quite sure how it's morally better to risk the health of volunteers than employees? I might have misunderstood your phrasing..
Legally, this isn't quite true either, as even voluntary organisations have obligations to ensure their volunteers are not exposed to undue risks as part of their duty of care. On a side note, the Police and Fire Rescue both function whilst operating as employees within the HS@W Act. Similarly the RAF operate two mountain rescue teams in the same environments as volunteer organisations and they work together quite successfully!