BCA AGM 11th June 2023 - details

[menacer]

It is so sad to see the national body for our beloved sport in such a state. As others have said, it is important to have a national body for all sorts of reasons and it would be good to have one to be proud of. I've tried to decide what the problem actually is and I suspect it's several things but speaking from my own experience I know that lots of good people have tried to help in recent years and simply get hounded out by those who've been there forever, won't leave and won't accept change. During my time it was nothing but a toxic environment and that may well be different now however that legacy is going to be hard to shake off.

As is now evident, the pool of available good people who want to make things better has now run out.

So what's the answer? I don't really know but I believe those who have been involved know who the problem people are and they just need to be got rid of (or realise they are the problem) if the organisation is every likely to attract people. Two things that have been massively under appreciated in BCA is IT and PR. Both of which are absolutely critical in modernising things but are almost always side lined.

The BCA should be leading the way in British caving and instead it's just an embarrassment.

I'm a fan of old institutions dying out.
I'm no anarchist ( well maybe a little) but all institutions have clogged themselves into stale mate where any form of action is almost impossible as a result of red tape and legislation.

I'm all for collapsing institutions and returning to basics.

Anyone that wants to focus on quotas, diversity issues and ERG issues are welcome to continue their quest but at the end of the day action is done by a minority, without a vote and without resorting to compliance.

That's where you'll find cavers like Chris and myself.
Doing stuff behind the scenes.
Politics free.

 

[menacer]

I'm a fan of old institutions dying out.
I'm no anarchist ( well maybe a little) but all institutions have clogged themselves into stale mate where any form of action is almost impossible as a result of red tape and legislation.

I'm all for collapsing institutions and returning to basics.

Anyone that wants to focus on quotas, diversity issues and ERG issues are welcome to continue their quest but at the end of the day action is done by a minority, without a vote and without resorting to compliance.

That's where you'll find cavers like Chris and myself.
Doing stuff behind the scenes.
Politics free.

*ESG environmental social governance

 

[2xw]

*ESG environmental social governance

Autocorrect was it?

 

[alexchien]

"Every single organisation I've ever been involved with has had the same problem at one time or another "

Hmmmmm maybe it's you rather than the organisation then, maybe your ideas are so shit that the organisation's can;t bear to see them being proposed.
Maybe it's time to move on pal . you've been bitching about this for a number of years now , boring ! Let someone else take up the baton.

Snore ! zzzzzzzz

No offence intended, but it's getting boring......listening to people gripe about something, when they don't get their way.
Me, I just resign , and say 'c'est la vie', and move on.

 

[paul]

alexchien: Lets not break Forum guidelines and refrain from personal attacks please.

The Moderators Team.

 

[JoshW]

Anyone that wants to focus on quotas, diversity issues and ERG issues are welcome to continue their quest

Oh no! people focusing on diversity issues, how dare they!!

Why is it people have such a fear of caving being open, available and accessible to more people

 

[alastairgott]

Perhaps people being elected should propose three things they want to deliver on in the next year, if they don’t deliver on them, they are immediately dismissed from the role. They set these three things as their election “manifesto” and if one goal is not achieved in the first 4months then they are also expelled from their position.

Might seem a little draconian but if you want change then you have to set change in motion?

 

[CatM]

Perhaps people being elected should propose three things they want to deliver on in the next year, if they don’t deliver on them, they are immediately dismissed from the role. They set these three things as their election “manifesto” and if one goal is not achieved in the first 4months then they are also expelled from their position.

Might seem a little draconian but if you want change then you have to set change in motion?

All very well if you're in a paid position, but for volunteers with a job and a life, I think that's asking a bit much.
A manifesto isn't a bad idea, to encourage progress, but "immediate dismal" sounds like a recipe for disaster - and a distinct lack of volunteers.

 

[alastairgott]

Depends on what they choose as their goals, easy wins are ok, and show willing.

Other than that, you incentivise achievement, hut nights/access fees/£5 gift voucher for caving shop of choice for achievement of goals.

Might not sound like a lot, but you could get more done if people were slightly incentivised to succeed. 29 posts on council x 3 x £5 = max cost of £435-870 per year (depending on choice of incentive). And a mandate to get things done.

 

[aricooperdavis]

There has to be a bit of carrot and a bit of stick when it comes to motivating volunteers. This is why I thought Phil was an excellent chair - he kept a really close watch on what I was doing, what my progress was, and whether anything was holding me up. This was quite a high pressure way to work, and I couldn't have done it for more than a few years, but that's probably no bad thing for the BCA (look at me now, still in post but not doing much because I've lost momentum). Perversely the job is much more fulfilling if there's some pressure from the higher-ups to get stuff done, because it feels like your work is really valuable and valued.

I'm glad I'm not doing the motivating, I don't think it's an easy job, but I do think there's room for improvement in how it's being done at the moment.

 

[menacer]

Oh no! people focusing on diversity issues, how dare they!!

Why is it people have such a fear of caving being open, available and accessible to more people

What are you on about Josh.
You are putting fake words into the mouths of others you don't know.
I don't profess to know what you are thinking so zip it.
Please desist until you meet and have a conversation with me.

 

[menacer]

"Every single organisation I've ever been involved with has had the same problem at one time or another "

Hmmmmm maybe it's you rather than the organisation then, maybe your ideas are so shit that the organisation's can;t bear to see them being proposed.
Maybe it's time to move on pal . you've been bitching about this for a number of years now , boring ! Let someone else take up the baton.

Snore ! zzzzzzzz

No offence intended, but it's getting boring......listening to people gripe about something, when they don't get their way.
Me, I just resign , and say 'c'est la vie', and move on.

What on earth are you on about Alex.

What ideas are shit?

Have we met?
I guess not because I'm not a pal.

I'm libertarian, I'm not one for over arching political structures, believing that the best things get down by folk behind the scenes without the need for committees.

I don't know why it needs to get so personal.

Bizarre.

But it is a 20th century key board warrior problem, for sure.

Have a nice day.

 

[2xw]

I don't profess to know what you are thinking so zip it.
Please desist until you meet and have a conversation with me.

That's not very libertarian

 

[JoshW]

Perhaps people being elected should propose three things they want to deliver on in the next year, if they don’t deliver on them, they are immediately dismissed from the role. They set these three things as their election “manifesto” and if one goal is not achieved in the first 4months then they are also expelled from their position.

Might seem a little draconian but if you want change then you have to set change in motion?

In theory anyone put on council should have some sort of manifesto anyway. I certainly put one forwards every time I went for a role.

Whether the level of accountability is there to ensure those in post are following through with their manifestos (if they even have one), is a different matter.

I pushed for a long time (and got it through council, only for it to not be enacted for a while) for named voting on council minutes, so those in elected posts can be held to account (or at least not voted for next time) if they’re not acting in the electorates interest.

To be honest a manifesto just to turn up to the meetings would be one if get on board with. Over the last few years of my council involvements, I’d say that less than 50% (on average) of individual / group reps have attended council meetings.

 

[andrewmcleod]

But it is a 20th century key board warrior problem, for sure.

A surprisingly large number of my current friends weren't even born in the 20th century...

But yes, telling people to stop talking about stuff doesn't seem very libertarian. We all become what we hate, and all that...