damian said:
exsumper said:
Rubbish Commercialisation has been part of the agenda all along. First you tried to destroy the influence of clubs, second you then tried to destroy the amateur ethos.
If by "destroying the influence of clubs" you mean allowing individual members to vote but still allowing clubs to veto anything in a separate vote, then maybe. I sort of take your point about SRT kits, but that is a fairly isolated example and certainly doesn't point to BCA becoming massively commercial. Also, at the risk of being fussy, in the 90s it was NCA not BCA.
I'm not interested in the rest of the crap you've spouted, In common with a lot of other cavers I'm just sick of the Hypocrisy, lies, deceit, and pathetic games, engaged in by some of the more senior representatives of our national and regional caving bodies!
With respect, that's not very nice. I don't think I have every lied, been hypocritical or played "pathetic games" while involved in BCA. Everything I have ever done has been precisely as I have believed BCA Council (as the senior democratic body) wishes me to. In my time as secretary (5 yrs I think) I am not aware of any attempt by Council to hide anything ... and I'd have a pretty good idea if it did. We publish everything, allow anyone who wishes to to attend our meetings, invite voting representatives from all the Regions and Constituent Bodies and are generally as open as I think it is possible to be.
However you describe it; Both the CNCC and BCA have been promoting and suggesting to landowners "Cash for Access" !!!!!!
P.S. If you think this a little harsh or unfair, just reflect on the fact that the cash for access issue has only come to light as a result of recent activism on this forum!! Prior to this, the only cavers that knew amateur caving was being sold down the river were officials of the BCA/CNCC!! :spank:
:spank:
I have said it before, and I'll say it again. BCA does not equal CNCC. We are separate bodies and in fact constitutionally BCA is not allowed to interfere in CNCC's affairs at all. This is exactly the same with CSCC, or indeed any other Region or Constituent Body. BCA has not suggested or promoted cash for access, nor I suspect will it ever.
So cut it out or f*** off!!! :icon_321:
I'll ignore that particularly unpleasant line.
So how do you explain this then damian?
http://british-caving.org.uk/wiki3/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=about:documents:council_meetings:council_minutes_2013-10-05_draft.pdf
From Appendix 1 Why do you think that Both the South Wales Caving Club and the Charterhouse Caving Committee put the same interpretation on the proposals as I do then??
Are they Unpleasant too?
As I've said numerous times before! I only get unpleasant when people try to deceive or lie to me. When you and your CNCC/BCA colleagues criticise me for getting a little tetchy, you need to remind yourselves that manners are a social contract and only apply when both parties behave in an open and honest manner and treat each other with respect! Lies, deceit and indulging in political games, negate that contract.
How do you think that Landowners will feel when they find out that the BCA have been playing underhand tricks with them? They'll think that the BCA have nothing but contempt for them and are treating them like cunts!
And before anyone starts saying that I shouldn't be saying this on an open forum. Landowners aren't stupid and will find out what the BCA are doing anyway! If anyone would like to see quite how comtemptuos the BCA are treating landowners read the following from the CSCC Minutes
10) BCA Rep?s Report
10.1 BCA draft report on commercial caving, this was discussed in some detail, it
was agreed the document needs to be clear that there are different types of
commercial caving and clearly differentiate between commercial caving for profit
and commercial caving for safety and for training. It needs to be clear to both
cavers and non-cavers. It needs to be worded carefully so it does not become a
means by which landowners can deny access. There was agreement with and
support for the comments made by the Charterhouse Caving Company. CSCC has
concerns about it being published and turned into a leaflet and made available to
landowners as it would raise awareness of commercial caving to landowners and
potentially create access issues which currently do not exist. It was agreed that the
document should not be published in any form and only be made available
internally as information to aid C&A Officers or others when negotiating access.
Damian
Just a few tips to recap
Treat everyone with respect and in an honest and open manner and you won't have any problems!
And don't treat landowners and ordinary cavers like cunts!!!