Belay belts

[mattsccm]

It seems that load bearing belts are a thing of the past or so a retailer tells me. Back in the game after 30 years and my old Troll and CS belts may be past it. Looking at the big name stuff but did just check, as belts are sold which are constructed in the same way as my old ones are no longer sold as load bearing. Roller buckles or two piece buckles are over kill for gear hanging so what do they do?
Anyway what do people use for short drop with a top rope, shorts ladders etc? A harness is over kill for a 10 foot drop.
Is this a product of arse covering ruling by organisations like the UIAA?

 

[Cantclimbtom]

They still exist, but are called caving belts or battery belts and disclaimer that they're not PPE so aren't described as load bearing... legally can't be described as such. They are pretty strong though!

Personally (this is just my opinion), I'm happy to use a belt for a short ladder or easy traverse etc. But that doesn't comply with elf 'n safety whatnot.

They still make them, we still use them, just have a different name that's all.

Warmbac Caving Belt - Inglesport

Technical Equipment Retailers to the Sport and Professional markets for Caving, Climbing, Rope Access, Work at Height and Rescue since 1977

www.inglesport.com

NOT to be used as PPE

 

[pwhole]

I only have one belt somewhere, but I never use it - the thought of hanging from it fills me with horror, so I tend to avoid ladders too! Or use them in tight enough pitches that I don't need a lifeline. And the rest of the time I don't need a belt. But a regular harness with nothing on it is no more bulky than a belt, but a hell of a lot more reliable as an attachment point, and better weight distribution if you do take a fall. So I just do that on the rare occasion I use a ladder.

 

[LadyMud]

They're also very useful to hoik your oversuit up, if it's too long!

 

[IanWalker]

Most people lifeline with harnesses. They are safer in a fall/haul, more comfortable when pulled, and most clubs have them anyway as cavers generally move onto SRT as soon as they can. Dales based that is.

There isn't so much of a need for a waist belt for hanging carbide generators or Oldham cells anymore, reducing the need for most people on most trips.

But they are really good for grabbing during combined tactics, and provide an obvious and quick clip in point for someone unsure on a climb / traverse. I would say thats safer than nothing at all.

I still lifeline on mine; I think that puts me in the minority. But then I replaced the webbing so obviously I'm gonna die.

This is obviously a really strong lamp belt. Common sense says its probably not going to snap before you do.

Lyon Lamp Belt - Inglesport

Technical Equipment Retailers to the Sport and Professional markets for Caving, Climbing, Rope Access, Work at Height and Rescue since 1977

www.inglesport.com

@Pete K wrote a blog about it

Testing the strength of heavy duty caving belts – Pete Knight's Blog

www.peakinstruction.com

But you can have a full climbing harness for not much more, and is made for the job

Petzl Gym Sit Harness - Inglesport

Technical Equipment Retailers to the Sport and Professional markets for Caving, Climbing, Rope Access, Work at Height and Rescue since 1977

www.inglesport.com

Or just tie a bowline. No safety label required

 

[mattsccm]

Cheers all.
It was the Warmbac one that I was told, by a retailer, wasn't a belay belt as things have moved on. Yeah, right. Harnesses were perfectly common 30 years ago and we all knew then that a belt wasn't much cop for big free abs but as a bit of security for a short drop where a fall might break an ankle they were fine. It is a toss up between the Lyon and the Warmbac but the retailer won't (fair enough) indicate if they are just gear belts in construction, like those with a plastic Fastex type buckle, or older style full strength. A harness is fine but a pain for tight stuff and one short drop. Bowline it is I reckon.

 

[mattsccm]

That blog is interesting. I wonder how my old CS belt would perform. It was second hand 35 years ago.
Is it amusing or annoying that acceptance levels of danger have changed? I date from the era when a Whillans was a perfectly good climbing harness and a rope around the waist and big boots were the gear for VS climbing.

 

[cap n chris]

You can buy a new sit harness for less than a new caving belt, the former is PPE and the latter isn't. Scout around online suppliers.

 

[mattsccm]

Really? A harness for 30 quid or less. Ace. Where? All I see are climbing harness's which are a different thing and which I have.
To be honest though I am old enough to remember the times before the letters PPE existed. That isn't meant to be rude by the way, just mildly amused about the sad way the world is going. Thanks people.

 

[mikem]

Belt or Harness? In 2023. Pros/Cons.

Interested to know what people are doing now we're properly, yes properly, into the C21st and have (hopefully) moved on from the days of balertwine, hemp, manly beards, and illiteracy. It has been seven years since a caver/IRATA chum first coined the expression (previously unknown to me) that...

ukcaving.com

 

[PeteHall]

I never cave without a belt. It's just more comfortable having it hold your oversuit in place and is a good place to clip off a bag for dragging through crawls, or to hand a small bag when walking. As Ian says, it's also a great place to grab if helping someone find on a climb, or for an impromptu lifeline on small climbs.

As it happens I've just bought three used Warmbac/Dragon belts in good condition for a very reasonable price (found after a discussion with someone selling a kids oversuit on Facebook marketplace).
She's got about 10 more belts, so I can put you in touch if you're interested?

 

[martinr]

Really? A harness for 30 quid or less. Ace. Where?

Well there's this for £9.99 from a seller called kamakazi

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/167259995362

​

 

[JAA]

I have and rather rate the AV speleo belt from Starless River. Imagine a belt but with a harness fastening and gear loops.

 

[dougle89]

Really? A harness for 30 quid or less. Ace. Where? All I see are climbing harness's which are a different thing and which I have.
To be honest though I am old enough to remember the times before the letters PPE existed. That isn't meant to be rude by the way, just mildly amused about the sad way the world is going. Thanks people.

Fixe climbing gear Espeleo Harness Green | Trekkinn

Get Fixe climbing gear Espeleo in Green for 22.99 £. Ideal for outdoor with fast delivery. Buy Harnesses at Trekkinn!

www.tradeinn.com

I use this and is plenty comfy and less than 30

@JAA that belt looks decent for traverse only stuff!

 

[Boy Engineer]

To be honest though I am old enough to remember the times before the letters PPE existed. That isn't meant to be rude by the way, just mildly amused about the sad way the world is going.

I hope you aren’t sad about PPE. Too many trips to hospital, or the undertakers for some. I’ll be at a funeral in 10 days of a guy who had mesothelioma, which will be sad but not amusing. When elimination or engineering controls aren’t adequate, PPE can be a literal lifesaver.

 

[badger]

You are over 18, you can make an educated decision based on the information you have been given, I personally knowing the information, would think harness, plenty of cavers think otherwise.

 

[pwhole]

I have and rather rate the AV speleo belt from Starless River. Imagine a belt but with a harness fastening and gear loops.

I hadn't seen that one before - that is pretty cool if I'm honest, though I'd still like leg loops if I was genuinely using it as fall protection.

 

[paul]

That blog is interesting. I wonder how my old CS belt would perform. It was second hand 35 years ago.
Is it amusing or annoying that acceptance levels of danger have changed? I date from the era when a Whillans was a perfectly good climbing harness and a rope around the waist and big boots were the gear for VS climbing.

The issue with dropping the name Belay Belt was mainly because of required certification for PPE to be sold as such. One day they ere called Belay Belts and after this change the same belts were still being sold but with a different name like Caving Belt or whatever. I was surprised how much these now cost and would seriously spend the extra and get a harness such as the MTDE Club from https://starlessriver.com/product-category/sit-harnesses-srt/ for example. A price difference of a couple of beer vouchers is worth paying IMHO.

 

[tomferry]

warmbac-caving-belt


the cost of them is a lot , I suspect sales are much lower now less people use them for batteries ?

I always cave with 1,unless I have my full SRT on .

 

[huwg]

The issue with dropping the name Belay Belt was mainly because of required certification for PPE to be sold as such. One day they ere called Belay Belts and after this change the same belts were still being sold but with a different name like Caving Belt or whatever. I was surprised how much these now cost and would seriously spend the extra and get a harness such as the MMTDE Club from https://starlessriver.com/product-category/sit-harnesses-srt/ for example. A price difference of a couple of beer vouchers is worth paying IMHO.

Does the mtde club need a chest harness for life lining on ladders?