Brexit
- Thread starter Mrs Trellis
- Start date
JoshW said:
Really? That must the long range 737 I used it to fly to some hick place on the Hudson from Edinburgh with them. I didn't think it would get to Bangkok. Me and Norwegian go back a long way to when they had a couple of turboprops.
Norwegian are bust. It's not really a big surprise. They made Freddy Laker look sober.
tony from suffolk
Well-known member
Whoops, my example's hub & spoke...
Pitlamp
Well-known member
Aardgoose's articulate comments above (late evening Christmas day) are certainly food for thought. I also share his concerns about the direction in which political style seems to be heading.
But I'm generally a glass half full person and, buoyed by the Queen's speech yesterday, I'm hopeful that things will not be as bad as they might have been, in 2021 and beyond. I agree with you that we've shot ourselves in the foot though.
But I'm generally a glass half full person and, buoyed by the Queen's speech yesterday, I'm hopeful that things will not be as bad as they might have been, in 2021 and beyond. I agree with you that we've shot ourselves in the foot though.
royfellows
Well-known member
ChrisJC said:
Its happening. From memory a while back, could be one of the above?
Anyway, a previous thread "when we leave the EU at the end of the year with no deal etc"
or words to that effect.
pwhole
Well-known member
I remember reading a quote about John Peel from about 1970, exasperated at the amount of what he considered bad bubblegum music in the pop charts and complaining that one of his favourite groups, probably Principal Edwards Magic Theatre (don't go there), weren't having the massive success he expected.
"I don't understand why they're not making it", he said, probably to John Walters, his producer; "Everyone I know has their album".
Walters said: "No John, it's just that you know everyone who has their album".
"I don't understand why they're not making it", he said, probably to John Walters, his producer; "Everyone I know has their album".
Walters said: "No John, it's just that you know everyone who has their album".
tony from suffolk
Well-known member
...except it wasn't my text.
aardgoose
Member
Many of the effects are already in evidence:
A PM who's whole career was built on lying.
A government unaccountable to parliament.
A legal system under attack with underfunding, and moves to make executive action above the law are in progress. (that is the the government manifesto).
There is already much more increased explicit racism and xenophobia.
Dishonesty and corruption at the highest level now goes unchallenged.
For example, contracts to supply PPE were given preferentially to companies with close personal relationships to MPs or were party donors. Many of such companies had no experience in PPE supply of even international trading, given most were obtaining supplies from China. Indeed a fast track channel was setup for such companies.
We have a record number of food banks (true before covid struck). The existence of which one government member found 'uplifting'.
The social support infrastructure in this country is under resourced and failing.
The country is more divided than ever.
The UK's global and regional influence is badly damaged.
The people of NI now have more rights than the residents of Great Britain.
The UK itself is highly fractured and likely to break up.
Our finance industry is now exposed to steady attrition.
This is already happening. It isn't pessimism. Its observable fact. Calling this 'doom mongering' is insulting.
I can only assume that you are in favour of all of the above. If that is the society you want, and again I can only assume it is, it isn't one I wish to share with you.
In 10 years, if this is reversed I will be relieved (or dead). But any reversal will be in direct opposition to the current direction of the country, a direction you have backed.
ChrisJC
Well-known member
aardgoose said:
I'm not going to argue with all that, however I make two points:
Firstly all your points are not measurable, and are just a matter of your opinion. Of course you are welcome to that, I have a different opinion.
And secondly, our manufacturing industry has been decimated over the last 40 years whilst within the EU, so perhaps our ability to renew it now we are outside might counterbalance the supposed finance industry disaster that is unfolding (is this the same industry that caused the 2008 credit crunch?? - sounds like a real asset!)
I think doom monger is probably the only demonstrably accurate statement in all of this, insulting or not.
Chris.
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
I think that the change from manufacturing to finance and services has been an innate change in the UK, driven by Tory governments since the early 80s. I don't think there has been an inward pressure from the EU for this change. A case in point being Acorn, who spurned manufacturing computers to providing a service designing computer architectures instead, and became a World leader.
Myself, I'd quite like to see the return of nuts and bolts engineering.
Myself, I'd quite like to see the return of nuts and bolts engineering.
tony from suffolk
Well-known member
So which facts on aardvark's list are "Only a matter of opinion"?ChrisJC said:
tony from suffolk
Well-known member
This is the final entry in Alan Bennett's diary for the current issue of the LRB (London Review Bookshop):
"15 December. There were those in 1914 who believed that war was just what was needed - as a cleanser and a salutary shock. England would be the better for it. As we wait for the result of the final Brexit talks, the heirs of these fools are still with us".
"15 December. There were those in 1914 who believed that war was just what was needed - as a cleanser and a salutary shock. England would be the better for it. As we wait for the result of the final Brexit talks, the heirs of these fools are still with us".
StealthYak
New member
ChrisJC said:
The global economy has changed a lot in the last 40 years, and in the same period we were a member of the EU. That doesn't make one the cause of the other - unless of course you belive everything must be blamed on someone else.
The concept that we can suddenly switch away from getting 80% of our GDP from services (which are not covered by the deal) back to manufacturing awhile at the same time having to renegotiate trade deals is simply the fantasy of those who can't face up to the fact that they were played for fools by the leave campaign.
aardgoose
Member
Rather than engage with evidenced fact you ignore inconvenient truths.
For example:
NI Citizens.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/your_right_to_irish_citizenship.html#lee33f
NI citizens can claim Irish citizenship and hence rights of EU citizens and the rights ok UK citizens. This isn't an opinion.
PPE Procurement
https://www.nao.org.uk/press-release/investigation-into-government-procurement-during-the-covid-19-pandemic/
Suppliers introduced by Government contacts 10x more likely to be awarded contracts.
Underfunding legal system under attack.
There is a huge backlog of cases, with trials scheduled long after the alleged events, when witnesses memories will have faded. This backlog predates COVID. The court estate is badly maintained and has been greatly reduced since 2010 with frequent cancellations with leaking building, failed lifts etc.
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/criminal-court-backlog-reaches-two-year-high/5103650.article
The government has stated it's intent in it's 2019 manifesto to restrict the scope of judicial review of government actions and has included 'ouster clauses' in recent legislation that attempt to remove the right to challenge actions.
https://www.conservatives.com/our-plan
Global Influence
In the EU we had numerous veto's and representation at all levels, for instance we could veto a country joining the EU. We have lost that power. In the EU we were highly influential in setting standards of product regulation, we have lost that. We claim a special relationship with the US, but ignore the large Irish American lobby, and by endangering the 'Good Friday' agreement have reduced our influence in the US.
https://www.ft.com/content/8c533029-5e5e-418b-9d1a-03ef38a4de07
I am not a cheerleader for the finance industry, but the EU is not responsible for the UK's manufacturing decline. Germany has much greater success, and exports more to China among others. Manufacturers with a large EU market are unlikely to want to invest in the UK,
https://www.wsj.com/articles/markets-to-may-britain-needs-a-better-brexit-plan-1484593397
As for the Tory MP finding food banks "uplifting".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41264965
As for the PM's record and international reputation, just one example as seen from outside the UK and by his ex colleagues.
https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/international/london-diary-was-the-foreign-secretary-a-thug-and-a-liar
I am sure you will now declare all this evidence as "fake news" or ignore it as you have attempted to do.
tony from suffolk
Well-known member
Apologies Mr Aardgoose for calling you ?aardvark?. I plead senility.
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
Just doing a bit of geological research. If Scotland goes Independent, I presume there will be a grace period, whereby Scotland hosts the subs, for say 10 years or so. Where are they going to go after? Looking at Portsmouth, it's fairly flabby clay and silt stuff. Ditto Thames Estuary, Kent north coast etc. So I guess the subs would have to go to Devon. Maybe the Teign or Dart?
RobinGriffiths
Well-known member
Answering my own question, hosting the subs for XXX years would presumably be a condition for letting the referendum to go ahead.
