Mark
Well-known member
Could be worth a look, what did the water come out of
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Descent 302 is published on 15 February and it will soon be on its way to our subscribers.
In the newsdesk, read a review of the underground events at Kendal Mountain Festival, plus tales of cannibalism and the Cavefish Asteroid.
In regional news, we have three new connections in Ogof Agen Allwedd, a report on the iron mines of Anjou, an extension to Big Sink Cave in the Forest of Dean, a new dig in Yorkshire's Marble Steps Pot, student parties, an obituary for Tony Boycott, a tight find in the Peak District and a discovery in County Kerry with extensive formations.
British Fluorspar
- Thread starter waggie
- Start date
If you go and look head down the main roadway about quarter of a mile there is a slit (right hand passage) follow this and you will come to a wall of sleepers with water seeping through, this is a dam / water gate holding water back under pressure.
I have only seen it in wet weather, maybe the water stops in dry periods.
It certainly requires handling with care.
Further down the main drive again on the right there is another slit that at the end of is a climb up through sleepers which leads up into old mine mine workings. The location is approx under silence mine.
I have only seen it in wet weather, maybe the water stops in dry periods.
It certainly requires handling with care.
Further down the main drive again on the right there is another slit that at the end of is a climb up through sleepers which leads up into old mine mine workings. The location is approx under silence mine.
royfellows
Well-known member
After spending some time carefully reading what accounts are available and picking through Companies House records I am able to give a reasonable picture of what has been going on.
To answer ARs question re the charges in favour of National Park, they were satisfied in 2016.
To continue, I first have to introduce the key player, someone who probably none of you have heard of, Mr Tommaso Edoardo Giulini. He is the owner of 75% of the shares of Fluorsid Group (FG). An Italian chemicals group. In 2019 they bought out what was then British Fluorspar Ltd (BFL) for £100K in the form of 100,000 £1 shares in BFL which was renamed Fluorsid British Fluorspar Ltd (FBFL).
BFL was not in good shape and the motivation is rather obviously, and stated as such in the last available accounts, to procure a source of essential raw material for FGs chemical works. So basically, for about the cost of a new Range Rover they ensured a ready supply of an essential material for quite a few years, I would say a smart business move.
As FG owns FBFL completely Mr G has full and complete control which includes the power to hire and fire directors. As FBFL currently has no directors, which is illegal under UK company law, it remains to be seen whether Mr G will find a director from somewhere so as enable FBFL to be wound up in an orderly manner, or simply throw it under a bus.
Below I reproduce two relevant paragraphs from the last (2021) set of published accounts:
1/ Material uncertainty related to going concern
In auditing the financial statements, we have concluded that the directors' use of the going concern basis of accounting in the preparation of the financial statements is appropriate.
We draw attention to note 19 in the financial statements, which indicates that the company incurred a net loss of £2,751,033 during the year ended 31 December 2021 and, as of that date, the company's current liabilities exceeded its total assets by £3,821,870. The parent company has undertaken to provide support and in our opinion the company is dependent upon this support to continue as a going concern.
2/ Support from Parent Company
The company incurred a net loss of £2,751,033 during the year ended 31 December 2021 and, as of that date, the company's current liabilities exceeded its total assets by £39821,870 . The parent company has undertaken to provide financial support to Fluorsid British Fluorspar Limited- Whilst a declaration of support has been provided, this is not necessarily something which is legally enforceable, creating some uncertainty surrounding the company's ability to continue as a going concern.
RF continues
I am hopeful that this easily explains the events that have lead up to the current situation, but bear in mind that the accounts are now 2 years out of date; I therefore leave readers to form their own conclusions. I will keep the thread updated with events as they happen sourced from Companies House together with explanations to the best of my ability.
To answer ARs question re the charges in favour of National Park, they were satisfied in 2016.
To continue, I first have to introduce the key player, someone who probably none of you have heard of, Mr Tommaso Edoardo Giulini. He is the owner of 75% of the shares of Fluorsid Group (FG). An Italian chemicals group. In 2019 they bought out what was then British Fluorspar Ltd (BFL) for £100K in the form of 100,000 £1 shares in BFL which was renamed Fluorsid British Fluorspar Ltd (FBFL).
BFL was not in good shape and the motivation is rather obviously, and stated as such in the last available accounts, to procure a source of essential raw material for FGs chemical works. So basically, for about the cost of a new Range Rover they ensured a ready supply of an essential material for quite a few years, I would say a smart business move.
As FG owns FBFL completely Mr G has full and complete control which includes the power to hire and fire directors. As FBFL currently has no directors, which is illegal under UK company law, it remains to be seen whether Mr G will find a director from somewhere so as enable FBFL to be wound up in an orderly manner, or simply throw it under a bus.
Below I reproduce two relevant paragraphs from the last (2021) set of published accounts:
1/ Material uncertainty related to going concern
In auditing the financial statements, we have concluded that the directors' use of the going concern basis of accounting in the preparation of the financial statements is appropriate.
We draw attention to note 19 in the financial statements, which indicates that the company incurred a net loss of £2,751,033 during the year ended 31 December 2021 and, as of that date, the company's current liabilities exceeded its total assets by £3,821,870. The parent company has undertaken to provide support and in our opinion the company is dependent upon this support to continue as a going concern.
2/ Support from Parent Company
The company incurred a net loss of £2,751,033 during the year ended 31 December 2021 and, as of that date, the company's current liabilities exceeded its total assets by £39821,870 . The parent company has undertaken to provide financial support to Fluorsid British Fluorspar Limited- Whilst a declaration of support has been provided, this is not necessarily something which is legally enforceable, creating some uncertainty surrounding the company's ability to continue as a going concern.
RF continues
I am hopeful that this easily explains the events that have lead up to the current situation, but bear in mind that the accounts are now 2 years out of date; I therefore leave readers to form their own conclusions. I will keep the thread updated with events as they happen sourced from Companies House together with explanations to the best of my ability.
pwhole
Well-known member
I wonder why Peter Robinson resigned as a director in May 2022? His now-notorious interview as 'the landowner of the field' with Countryfile at the time of the Slater's Engine collapse was priceless, although it's impossible to find online now. Me and a mate were 'almost' interviewed by Calendar's David Hirst one morning when he coincidentally turned up with a camera crew as we were peering down the hole. We refused, both claiming (rightly) a serious conflict of interest - very serious for my mate. At that point Peter Webster's sister (I think) came hurtling out of their farmyard and told us all, Yorkshire TV included, to 'move your fucking cars out of our lane'. I suggested to Hirst that he go interview her, as he'd get much more useful info. Sadly that night's broadcast was pretty anodyne, so they clearly got to him in the afternoon 
royfellows
Well-known member
AR - apologies. You question related to bonds not charges, as far as I am aware the bonds to the sum of £500K may still exist, they did at time of the 2021 accounts.
Stoney Boy
Member
Giulini's have a long history with Fluorspar in Derbyshire....Didn't they own the plant at Ryder Point before Dresser bought it?
Interestingly there is an old chap who drinks in our local who says Giulini's still owe him money for destroying the road at Winster many years ago....
Interestingly there is an old chap who drinks in our local who says Giulini's still owe him money for destroying the road at Winster many years ago....
royfellows
Well-known member
I havent gone back that far, but there are other companies Mr G is involved in, as his family. Its called "The Corporate Web", although so far who actually owns what is very clear.
AR
Well-known member
From what I've heard, he was "encouraged" to do so...I wonder why Peter Robinson resigned as a director in May 2022?
LJR
Member
They certainly did.
My first mining job in 1971 involved going up to the Ryder Point plant to watch the incoming ore from Deepwood Mining Company being sampled by the Guiulini people as Deepwood didn't trust the analysis and thought they were being diddled.
All the lab staff were Italian.
royfellows
Well-known member
Latest development, the company has changed its name to Green Land PD Ltd on 16th of this month, 2 days ago. The accounts are over 3 months overdue and the company still has no directors, however Companies House has not issued a striking off notice. This makes me wonder if a receiver has been appointed.
I think the change of name odd, I wonder if its an attempt to disassociate from the parent company?
I think the change of name odd, I wonder if its an attempt to disassociate from the parent company?
AR
Well-known member
There's still activity on site; I took the dog for a walk around the area this morning and there was a demolition crew working on the primary crusher. You might be right about receivership Roy, I can't see CH allowing them to stagger on with no directors and overdue accounts for very long
royfellows
Well-known member
To AR, presumably you are referring to Cavendish Mill. Next time around there, just take a look at the office door area, see if any notices or whatever.
Without going into details, I see a lot of legal implications in what is going on.
Without going into details, I see a lot of legal implications in what is going on.
pwhole
Well-known member
A few shots of the new hole at Silence Mine ( which was a Scheduled Monument - but arguably isn't any more), at least 10m deep - and also one of the largest 'original' crater, roughly where the engine shaft used to be. This makes four or five collapses now of varying depths and diameters - it's getting hard to keep up. And even harder to work out how these will be made safe now with the amount of backfill required - and which can't be guaranteed to stay at surface, obviously. There are earthquake-style cracks all over the place, and it's clearly all still moving. What happens to the land above all this is open to conjecture, but if that starts sliding this will become major. The site should now have been closed off by the Peak Park, and there's no access allowed.
royfellows
Well-known member
Was that the public path adjascent to the new crater?. Its a site I hvenerv visited, must take a look.
AR
Well-known member
Silence Mine isn't scheduled, though both John Barnatt and I thought there was a good case for it being one but Historic England are very wary of scheduling a site with an active planning permission (in this case for mineral extraction) as they would potentially have to compensate for the "lost" value of the minerals that could no longer be extracted. As pwhole says, there is no public access to the site now (he was there with permission), both the permissive path through the site and the bridleway above it have been closed for safety reasons. I must stress that people should not ignore this and "just go for a look", it's not worth the risk given how many collapses have now occurred in this area.
Although I didn't go close to the Cavendish Mill office front door, I didn't obviously see any notices posted - will have another look if I'm round there.
Although I didn't go close to the Cavendish Mill office front door, I didn't obviously see any notices posted - will have another look if I'm round there.
royfellows
Well-known member
We are now nearing the end of the month and on the 1st March the companies accounts will be 5 months overdue and currently no directors.
I am leaving it to next month but if no action by Companies House I will be tendering a Freedom of Information request to Companies House.
I shall be asking what the normal timescale is for First Gazette (Intention to strike off), if the current overdue period falls into that timescale, and if so, why no First Gazette has been published. Also, what the normal procedure is the a company where all directors have resigned and if the company falls into that area, why nothing has been done.
If anyone on here who is interested has anything else to suggest, suggest away, all welcome.
I am leaving it to next month but if no action by Companies House I will be tendering a Freedom of Information request to Companies House.
I shall be asking what the normal timescale is for First Gazette (Intention to strike off), if the current overdue period falls into that timescale, and if so, why no First Gazette has been published. Also, what the normal procedure is the a company where all directors have resigned and if the company falls into that area, why nothing has been done.
If anyone on here who is interested has anything else to suggest, suggest away, all welcome.
Cantclimbtom
Well-known member
Depending on if it'd be a liability for you, but you could contact the bona vacantia office and ask if the company should be considered bona vacantia and if so ask if you can buy it for £100? Totally unlikely to work, but there is a tiny slim chance it might, sometimes if you are simultaneously downright cheeky enough luck can pay off. You might find angry Italians knocking on your door though, so might just end up as hassle if it did work
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