Cave_Troll
Active member
when and where?
Carlswark Dynamite series.
- Thread starter danthecavingman
- Start date
cavermark
New member
Something needs sorting with Flower pot because there's enough unstable stuff to bury someone in a fatal way at present. I think there's also an issue with it being close enough to the road that passing drivers seeing cavers using it might provoke a numpty to poke around and bury themself.
So options are;
a) Stabilise it so it's safe.
b) Fill it in.
c) Put a lid on it until someone is motivated to do (a)
Option (a) is only worthwhile if people think it saves enough time to access digs. Therefore (c) could be the short term solution.
In terms of the barrels they aren't especially tight (where they aren't squished) but those with long legs find passing the narrower "necks" going up quite strenous. If its to be redug and lined perhaps this would be a way - Cut the barrel tops off so you have a parallel tube to made an easy ladder climb. to stop the barrels squishing insert some steel hoops to keep them round. I could make the hoops up and have a couple of barrels that could be added to allow for the extra length required.
OR.. an even more permanent option - use the parallel barrel tube as shuttering to pour concrete around (easy access from road for the generator, mixer, etc., which I could supply if needed).
Seems we might have re-opened a "can of worms" but maybe that should be spiders - there were some big round egg sacs and gnarly looking ones all over the place.
So options are;
a) Stabilise it so it's safe.
b) Fill it in.
c) Put a lid on it until someone is motivated to do (a)
Option (a) is only worthwhile if people think it saves enough time to access digs. Therefore (c) could be the short term solution.
In terms of the barrels they aren't especially tight (where they aren't squished) but those with long legs find passing the narrower "necks" going up quite strenous. If its to be redug and lined perhaps this would be a way - Cut the barrel tops off so you have a parallel tube to made an easy ladder climb. to stop the barrels squishing insert some steel hoops to keep them round. I could make the hoops up and have a couple of barrels that could be added to allow for the extra length required.
OR.. an even more permanent option - use the parallel barrel tube as shuttering to pour concrete around (easy access from road for the generator, mixer, etc., which I could supply if needed).
Seems we might have re-opened a "can of worms" but maybe that should be spiders - there were some big round egg sacs and gnarly looking ones all over the place.
SamT
Moderator
Thing is though - use anything metal, scaff - steel hoops etc or wood - and in 15 - 20 years time (maybe even sooner) - they're knackered/rotten and dangerous and your back to square one. (UM - very much like whats already happened (no offence Andy)
Use stone and concrete - it only gets stronger with time (as it calcifies)
For moorfurlong shaft - we used concrete 'gravel boards' and their associated posts. (you know those fences you see with vertical posts and concrete panels 8ft by 1 foot slid down between the posts)
Use the posts as lintles - and you stand the panels upright - then can then be 'capped' with the posts laid horizontal to secure everything in place.
We then backfilled with dry mix and rubble. I'll post up some photos of the moorfurlong construction later.
Thinking about it - if your close enough to the road - you can get wet concrete delivered right there and pumped into place - cubic meter of concrete is 80 quid (ish) and it goes quite a long way (especially when mixed with loads of limestone rubble.
failing that - there is the DCA petrol cement mixer - available for just such projects.
Use stone and concrete - it only gets stronger with time (as it calcifies)
For moorfurlong shaft - we used concrete 'gravel boards' and their associated posts. (you know those fences you see with vertical posts and concrete panels 8ft by 1 foot slid down between the posts)
Use the posts as lintles - and you stand the panels upright - then can then be 'capped' with the posts laid horizontal to secure everything in place.
We then backfilled with dry mix and rubble. I'll post up some photos of the moorfurlong construction later.
Thinking about it - if your close enough to the road - you can get wet concrete delivered right there and pumped into place - cubic meter of concrete is 80 quid (ish) and it goes quite a long way (especially when mixed with loads of limestone rubble.
failing that - there is the DCA petrol cement mixer - available for just such projects.
danthecavingman
Member
What are people up to next Wednesday evening? I was thinking of going down Eyam Dale House Cave but it's unlikely I will get the proof of insurance I need before then.
How about a working session on Flowerpot? Basically if the barrels are staying (no reason why they shouldn't), then what needs attention is the base of the shaft. Materials shouldn't be too hard to come by. I'm not certain exactly what we would need, Mark may have the best idea. Things like concrete, expanding foam and that sort of stuff are easily obtained. I reckon I'm up for it, Mark if he's not away, Rob will be, possibly Cave Troll. How about you Andy? The biggest question to my mind is what will we line the base of the shaft with. I'm not sure the squashed barrel is suitable any more.
How about a working session on Flowerpot? Basically if the barrels are staying (no reason why they shouldn't), then what needs attention is the base of the shaft. Materials shouldn't be too hard to come by. I'm not certain exactly what we would need, Mark may have the best idea. Things like concrete, expanding foam and that sort of stuff are easily obtained. I reckon I'm up for it, Mark if he's not away, Rob will be, possibly Cave Troll. How about you Andy? The biggest question to my mind is what will we line the base of the shaft with. I'm not sure the squashed barrel is suitable any more.
Cave_Troll
Active member
i'm available next wednesday evening... might need to plan a bit first. concrete etc...
AndyF
New member
Unfortunately, I'm working in the South this week, so I'm not around on Wednesday.
My thoughts on this would be to probably dig out all the barrels and do the job properly. I think it would be too awkward/difficult to just do the bottom one, (and dangerous from the sound of it).
When we dug in, we wern't exactly sure where to dig, so excavated a very big hole. The hole has solid walls (its like a rift) and the fill will be very loose, so a few people could empty it quite quickly. The far side, (under the tree) is also fairly solid.
Good loooking job on Moorfurlong, BTW...
My thoughts on this would be to probably dig out all the barrels and do the job properly. I think it would be too awkward/difficult to just do the bottom one, (and dangerous from the sound of it).
When we dug in, we wern't exactly sure where to dig, so excavated a very big hole. The hole has solid walls (its like a rift) and the fill will be very loose, so a few people could empty it quite quickly. The far side, (under the tree) is also fairly solid.
Good loooking job on Moorfurlong, BTW...
danthecavingman
Member
I am currently set for a trip down P7 tonight, it's so dry that if the sump is ever going to drop then now will be the time. Fancy coming?
How about the Cave Troll?
How about the Cave Troll?
T
T pot 1
Guest
Digging in stoney !!!!!! MMMMMMMMMMM 
Try the the choke at the bottom of Farnsley Lane Swallet, most southern cave in Stoney ? 86ft deep with good potential
PM for more details if interested
T pot
Try the the choke at the bottom of Farnsley Lane Swallet, most southern cave in Stoney ? 86ft deep with good potential PM for more details if interested
T pot
danthecavingman
Member
Hmm, still interested in this one.
I know Norman used to have a stack of concrete rings round at his - wonder if they are still there, they have been there a long time. I think that the Flower Pot entrance would be worth re-excavating. How many people would we need over a weekend to sort it? Any permissions needed Andy?
Dan.
I know Norman used to have a stack of concrete rings round at his - wonder if they are still there, they have been there a long time. I think that the Flower Pot entrance would be worth re-excavating. How many people would we need over a weekend to sort it? Any permissions needed Andy?
Dan.
AndyF
New member
danthecavingman said:
Apparently there is actually a landowner, though we had assumed it was the council at the time, and (in youthful ignorance) just got on and dug it.
Three of us did it over one weenend, and the fill was very solid. It would take much less time now as the fill will be looser...
It has solid walls (its a sort of short rake) Concrete rings may not fit unless they are quite narrow.
Hughie
Active member
AndyF said:
The larger body sized ribbed tubes are pretty tough, and are usually double skinned for extra strength. We use them for culverting gateways. Having said that, the single skinned variant will crush - but only under huge load.
If you want prices, let me know and I'll contact our suppliers.
To be honest, the blue drums (ir they're the ones I'm thinking of) completely lose their integrity when the ends are removed.
SamT
Moderator
Pretty sure they'd stand up to it - you usually see them buried under huge motorway embankments etc. As hughie states - the double skinned ones are tougher.
Much much stronger than barrels as they have actually been designed to withstand a crushing load. The hunger hill swallet one goes down about 15 - 20 feet. It also stands about a foot proud to prevent flood water from a nearby stream disappearing down it - which was a good idea I thought.
Much much stronger than barrels as they have actually been designed to withstand a crushing load. The hunger hill swallet one goes down about 15 - 20 feet. It also stands about a foot proud to prevent flood water from a nearby stream disappearing down it - which was a good idea I thought.