Cave Taping and Conservation.

[cap n chris]

I really appreciate taping, it goes a long way to stopping me being the cause of terrible damage, and personally tape in a photo doesn't bother me.

Thanks! - having been involved in a fair amount of taping (20 hours just to retape Withyhill earlier this year) it's nice to know when it IS appreciated! Although clearly it's actually done for the benefit of the cave, rather than the benefit of the visitors.

 

[graham]

I really appreciate taping, it goes a long way to stopping me being the cause of terrible damage, and personally tape in a photo doesn't bother me.

Thanks! - having been involved in a fair amount of taping (20 hours just to retape Withyhill earlier this year) it's nice to know when it IS appreciated! Although clearly it's actually done for the benefit of the cave, rather than the benefit of the visitors.

but caves are not voting members of BCA, so they should get no benefit from the organisation.

 

[cap n chris]

LOL. You're right of course. I'll draw up an invoice.

 

[Leclused]

Lovely MM. Not the UK ? Looks very very fragile to me.

Hi Nick. Belgium. SC Avalon have got it sussed. The caver is within the tapes, trust me! 

Indeed "mmilner" is right. As a member of Sc Avalon I know this place very well. This is the cave "Grotte du Bois de Waerimont" Eprave - Belgium. The part that is discovered by our club is protected by 2 steel doors.

Picture of the 1st entry door : http://scavalon.blogspot.be/search/label/Bois%20de%20Waerimont

We guide 6 times per year groups of maximum 6 cavers in the cave. The trip (4-6 hours) is almost completely taped to protect stals/ walls / floors/ bones / ...
There is even a zone were you need do undress and go through in your fleece undersuit. All dirty stuff is transported in bags including the helmets. So everybody needs an extra light. (see slide 13 in the presentation)

P De Bie made this presentation about conservation. It has been mentioned already several times here on the forum. Anayway here is the link to the presentation :

http://www.scavalon.be/downloads/Cave%20Protection%20English.pdf

Slide 18 and 19 are the same spot as in the picture shown previosely. The picture will tell the story
Slide 24 gives an example of pictograms to protect go / no-go zones in the cave.

Currenlty we use fencing wires with the woven alu wires in it. These are proven to work even better then the fine nylon ropes we used before, The nylon ropes were sometimes eaten by animals. The fencing tape is not  And we also switched the small plastic pins instead of alu pins for security reasons. A  plastic pin will bent when somebody falls on it an alu pin not and can cause injuries to the caver

@Old Ruminator : Go for the fencing wire it is proven that it work very well.

In the following photo album you can find some photos of how the taping can be installed.
https://plus.google.com/photos/+PaulDeBie/albums/5979106419169816081?banner=pwa

The taping in this cave was placed 2 days after this part was discovered. Taping should be done asap after the discovery. In this case 2 members did the discovery on a Friday and on Sunday we went back with 6 persons  to do the taping / survey and further exploration.

A small clip of a clean-up action in an other Belgian cave. This action involved members of several clubs joining to clean-up the cave

https://sites.google.com/site/speleovig/Environnement/operation-mr-propre-a-ste-anne

Recently there was a new discovery of a very very beautifull cave in Belgium. The explorers protected the cave in the same way and more. They even documented the cave in such a way that a virtual trip can be made in the cave.

https://sites.google.com/site/grottenoubleu/ (the virtual tour is a must see)

Hopefully this post will encourage other cavers to go an protect the beautiful underground.

BR

Dagobert L'Ecluse (Sc Avalon  - Belgium)
www.scavalon.be
scavalon.blogspot.be

 

[graham]

Two steel doors and a Guide!  Our yorkie brethren will have a duck fit.

 

[Leclused]

Two steel doors and a Guide!  Our yorkie brethren will have a duck fit.

An other cave that our club discovered is even protected with a camouflaged first door on the surface followed by 2 gated doors. 

A photo gallery of this cave "Grotte des Emotions"

http://www.scavalon.be/webalbums/Belgian%20Caves/Grotte%20des%20Emotions/index.html

Dagobert

 

[Mark Wright]

There are muddy boot and handprints marking the route through the very pretty high level passages in Rowter but I would much rather see that than tape in any of the new bits.

Really? 

Yes really.

The conservationists need to give some serious thought to educating others. With the majority of our new cavers coming from university clubs, perhaps the powers that be should engage with CHECC and formulate a plan.

I have given it serious thought and I have concluded that in far too many cases the education cannot be carried out in time. Sad, but true.

Education is a very important aspect of cave conservation. I am sure that in some cases this cannot be carried out in time but that surely is not a reason for not bothering. Taking steps now to engage with our new stock of future cavers should be at the top of the list.

Mark Wright

 

[Leclused]

Two steel doors and a Guide!  Our yorkie brethren will have a duck fit.

Especially for the yorkie
https://www.dropbox.com/s/39a76onazuuy1l0/IMG_2037.JPG

 

[martinm]

Thanks for links Dagobert. Esp. the one about the Op?ration Sainte-Anne. Saw it some time ago, but good to watch it again. Absolutely amazing the amount of soot you cleaned off that flowstone. Well done, keep up the good work! 

 

[martinr]

Two steel doors and a Guide!  Our yorkie brethren will have a duck fit.

And only open 6 days a year.

 

[Leclused]

Two steel doors and a Guide!  Our yorkie brethren will have a duck fit.

And only open 6 days a year.

And this year only 4 times because we only received 4 request from other groups.

But the cave is also visited for science purposes and these trips are not counted in the 6 guided trips.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

I would guess the Mendip caves are the most visited in the UK. Shatter, Withyhill, WL Cave and Reservoir have log books inside which keep count. Also perhaps encouragement to look after the caves as we would be able to track down any damage. Leaders are encouraged to note any damage seen in the book. So another conservation measure if you like.

 

[bograt]

I would guess the Mendip caves are the most visited in the UK.

Steady there O.R., considering the Peak District is the most visited National Park (highest population in it's catchment), and the Dales, (more cave passage), what are you basing this premise on?

I will agree, however, that Mendip is the most "protected" area for caves.

Just because caves do not have a log book system does not mean they are not visited.

 

[cap n chris]

For the record, I believe that taping should be done to the best of the abilities of those who undertake it, with the materials they deem most suitable for the purpose, preferably as quickly as can reasonably be achieved; I do not believe there should be a national policy on it, nor a stipulated choice of process, procedure, technique or material(s). It's hard enough finding ANYONE to undertake voluntary work, without putting bureaucratic millstones around their necks, with prescribed/proscribed procedures and/or penalties.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Quite right, Chris. You tell 'em.

 

[martinm]

Currenlty we use fencing wires with the woven alu wires in it. These are proven to work even better then the fine nylon ropes we used before, The nylon ropes were sometimes eaten by animals. The fencing tape is not  And we also switched the small plastic pins instead of alu pins for security reasons. A  plastic pin will bent when somebody falls on it an alu pin not and can cause injuries to the caver

Dagobert L'Ecluse (Sc Avalon  - Belgium)
www.scavalon.be
scavalon.blogspot.be

Have you got a web site where I could find out more info about that fencing wire Dagobert? Be good to find a UK supplier of it if there is one. Thanx. Mel.

 

[Pete K]

Be good for the next batch but ?100 of DCA red tape is arriving with me tomorrow!

 

[bograt]

Suspect Lecluse is refering to electric fencing 'wire';

Can't get the link to work, but Google " Rutland Electric Fencing" for an example.

 

[martinm]

Suspect Lecluse is refering to electric fencing 'wire';

Can't get the link to work, but Google " Rutland Electric Fencing" for an example.

Ta for that, had a quick look, yes I think that will be the stuff. Will look into it in more detail next week...

 

[Mark]

Be good for the next batch but ?100 of DCA red tape is arriving with me tomorrow!

I thought the DCA red tape was developed over many years, I didn't' know you had to buy it in