Cave Taping and Conservation.

[martinm]

Ten mm tapes and wire. Also available 20 mm tape. I can see the wire has use in some circumstances but it would have to be a very controlled environment. Both come in 200 m rolls.
Regarding longevity . The bottom tape has been around a field for many years. There is no degradation and the discoloration is organic. Not likely to occur in a cave.

That was a very useful photo The Old Ruminator (Nick?) I'm currently looking into alternative taping methods myself. What colour do you think? I think change it to approximate the colour of the feature it is there to try and protect. Eg:- Orange vs White. The white will show up more  in photos, but as someone else said recently, I don't really mind seeing tape/wire in photos. It reminds you of the preferred route through a cave to minimise damage.

T

 

[The Old Ruminator]

We all thought white looked better in The Frozen Deep. But that is a very big space. Having been to Neverland recently personally I thought white would look better there. Neverland is very controlled though. Most leaders stand close by to make sure nothing is touched or accidentally broken. You could possibly get away with wire here. Perhaps it comes down to horses for courses.
Ultimately whatever is used must be readily available and not too expensive. The farm wire/tape fulfills both of those.

Nick Chipchase.

 

[martinm]

We all thought white looked better in The Frozen Deep. But that is a very big space. Having been to Neverland recently personally I thought white would look better there. Neverland is very controlled though. Most leaders stand close by to make sure nothing is touched or accidentally broken. You could possibly get away with wire here. Perhaps it comes down to horses for courses.
Ultimately whatever is used must be readily available and not too expensive. The farm wire/tape fulfills both of those.

Nick Chipchase.

Thanx again Nick! Yep will bear that in mind in future. Regards, Mel.

 

[martinm]

Thought you might appreciate a couple of photos of some re=taping we did recently:-

and:-

The old plastic tape was all stretched and muddy, the new rope (from B&Q) is all tight and off the ground. The NT are very pleased with it.

Going to investigate the white electric fence wire in coming weeks. There is a company near me that sells it and it's a very reasonable price. I have a couple of sites in mind in which it might prove useful.

Regards, Mel.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

Looks good Mel.

 

[phizz4]

The tape in the picture is designed for stock control in fields and has electrical filaments running through it. Connect it to a hidden battery and an electric shepherd and problem solved.

 

[martinm]

The tape in the picture is designed for stock control in fields and has electrical filaments running through it. Connect it to a hidden battery and an electric shepherd and problem solved.

But many cavers (incl me) wear gloves and so would be insulated, lol. Interestingly a local farmer told me the other week that they tie baling twine (the flaky orange stuff) across the rivers either end of fields to prevent cattle straying too far from their fields. Apparently they think it's electric fence wire and avoid it! Been going Peak for years and never realized that. Always wondered what it was for, pity that won't work with cavers!

 

[Leclused]

Thought you might appreciate a couple of photos of some re=taping we did recently:-

and:-

The old plastic tape was all stretched and muddy, the new rope (from B&Q) is all tight and off the ground. The NT are very pleased with it.

Going to investigate the white electric fence wire in coming weeks. There is a company near me that sells it and it's a very reasonable price. I have a couple of sites in mind in which it might prove useful.

Regards, Mel.

Congrats with the good work

Good to see that this (and other) threads do have result in the field.

Hopefully this method will be taken over by many other cavers. In the end we will have a European style standard for taping 

This method is already widespread in Belgium and France

Dagobert - Sc Avalon - Belgium

 

[AR]

Going to investigate the white electric fence wire in coming weeks. There is a company near me that sells it and it's a very reasonable price. I have a couple of sites in mind in which it might prove useful.

Regards, Mel.

Mel, if you want some electric fence tape I've got some old stuff you're welcome to have.

 

[Kenilworth]

I have recently been writing on this topic after busting into a modest but well-decorated virgin cave. While I admire the hard work some of you have put into taping sensitive passages, I wonder if I may ask a few questions about the goals and the results. I am going to quote myself, please consider that my words are written based only on my experience in the eastern US. I mean no offense to anyone, and welcome honest responses that will help me understand your motivations for taping.

One confusing method used to ?conserve? speleothems is to barricade them behind flagging tape. This behavior either misses the point entirely or is more ambitious in its scope than I am able to appreciate. Do flaggers not realize that speleothems are an aesthetic resource (that is, that they are valuable only because we think they are pretty)? And that protecting them from being diminished through accidental breakage by intentionally diminishing them with unnatural and ugly flagging is both pointless and contradictory? As I said, it is possible that flaggers have the ?long-term? integrity of pretty things in mind when they uglify them. But I am uncomfortable with this idea of saving things ?for future generations? by losing them to ourselves. Giving away, certainly, a present, in exchange for an uncertain and almost definitely unappreciative future is a sacrifice that I, maybe in selfishness, do not wish to make. Still, I could at least respect such an idea if it was a proven fact that flagging protected anything. The thing that enacts real conservation, and the thing that will protect speleothems, is responsible behavior, and responsibility is not dependent on flagging tape. If flagging is unreasonably placed it will be ignored, even by a responsible and caring caver. If flagging is well out of the way, it will serve no use to the responsible and caring caver. Flagging will mean nothing to a vandal. So why do we do it? Maybe in an attempt to demonstrate the value that we place on speleothems. But this is a misguided and, I feel, selfish way to announce our righteousness.

I realize that this sounds harsh in light of all the work on display in this very topic, but I honestly feel that the root of the problem cannot be addressed with flagging tape. Many of your examples differ dramatically from those common in the US. I have seen garish flagging draped on stal like ribbons on a Christmas tree. Or flagging covering flowstone that was entirely impossible to avoid. Still, I think that the ideal solution lies in the care of the cave visitor. If one is concerned with conserving a valuable resource, they will choose their path wisely, move slowly, watch where they put their hands, demonstrate care and respect and restraint. Some in this thread have expressed appreciation for being reminded to stay in line.

I really appreciate taping, it goes a long way to stopping me being the cause of terrible damage, and personally tape in a photo doesn't bother me.

Why do we need these reminders? Could better results be enacted by changing our level of care instead of flagging things? Why must we make a few (those placing tape) responsible for aesthetic conservation when a healthier, purer, cleaner, and prettier outcome could be had through shared and genuine appreciation of the resource. Perhaps it's easier to place flagging tape than to teach people to give a damn...

Enlighten me :-\

 

[martinm]

I am going to quote myself, please consider that my words are written based only on my experience in the eastern US. I mean no offense to anyone, and welcome honest responses that will help me understand your motivations for taping.
Why must we make a few (those placing tape) responsible for aesthetic conservation when a healthier, purer, cleaner, and prettier outcome could be had through shared and genuine appreciation of the resource. Perhaps it's easier to place flagging tape than to teach people to give a damn...

Enlighten me :-\

Your situation in the US might be different to ours, but some caves in the UK at least have been trashed within months of being found. There is no access control in many cases, so there is no education possible. People just go down them and put their dirty hands all over your beautiful formations, maybe break a Straw or two by accident. There are places with pristine clastic sediments on the floor of scientific importance. That is the reason for taping, to guide people to follow a common path through a cave to minimise damage to more sensitive areas.

Oh, and draping tape around a formation you are trying to protect is just stupid. Keep the tape well away from them, place them on stainless steel risers to keep the tape off the floor, etc. and make them easily noticeable. You can still take photos and if those photos show the tape as well then all the better as it shows people who haven't been down there yet the recommended route through the passage.

 

[cap n chris]

Welcome to the forum Kenilworth.

First, no offence taken - taping can be an emotive topic and many people "don't get it" but it's only one part of a conservation plan or management philosophy to try and minimise impact on the fragile and limited environment we hold so dear.

There are many reasons to tape - preserving pretty formations is an obvious one (but more recently it is to protect rather dull-looking mud banks and layered sediments, because of the potential scientific interest they represent) - and the easiest and quickest way to do this was to wrap tape around the formations creating a barrier - this is not a good approach because it risks breaking the formations and if left in situ for a long time the tape becomes calcified and permanent alteration to the formations results.

Thoughtless taping is commonplace - it ought to be an art form, imo, or at the very least a LOT more consideration needs to be put into doing it but it takes time and patience and a lot of effort and goodwill so often isn't on the radar of most people. Why should it be? - simple:- if you want to visit caves you are morally obliged to be actively involved in conserving them; if you don't get this, perhaps you shouldn't be there in the first place.

However, it does work. Often very well.

With parallel universe theory this is easily proven; it cannot be proven beyond doubt any other way though sadly. We do have caves adjacent to each other where one is actively managed and the other is free access; the FA ones are in a sorry state, the AM ones are near-pristine. Not absolute proof, but pretty darn close.

AM usually involves gating and warden leadership too; this, combined with taping, is presently the undeniably effectively best method of conserving sites for the long term while simultaneously allowing visits (many decades of effectiveness at some sites, which would otherwise be wholesale trashed by now if not).

What does NOT work is trusting visitors to be conservation-minded. Certainly in the UK this is a fool's paradise. Perhaps elsewhere too. It only takes one person a single trip to destroy a cave.

 

[Les W]

Hi Kenilworth,
Just to add to the good Cap'n's post above, there is a very different culture in the UK with openness and guide books, as opposed to the "secrecy" policy within the US.
This means that you (US) can have a greater degree of control over who goes in your caves in the first place and can instill the conservation message into them, whereas in the UK there are lots* of people visiting caves outside of the "organised" caving scene that are very difficult to reach with the conservation message.

The UK is also very densely populated and few caves are very far from civilisation so they are very easy for people to find and to visit.

Another aspect is that the UK caves are grossly outnumbered by the number of cavers. Given that we don't actually know how many people visit caves it is difficult to determine how many visits happen but a rough approximation would be that there are a similar numbers of cavers in the UK as there are in the US but the US has lots more caves so the numbers per cave per visit are commensurately smaller. There is an observed correlation between visits, numbers and sites, and wear and tear/damage.
Tape is one of the main tools to show people where vulnerable areas are so they can avoid them.

*think of a number, any number, nobody really knows or has more than an educated guess...

 

[cap n chris]

The Old Ruminator might be glad to hear that this winter Shatter Cave was retaped throughout; 35 caver-hours of volunteer* work. All done on pegs with white tape; all old tape removed from cave.

Wessex CC member Jon Da'Casto taping, January 2015. Other helpers were MCG member Tom Harrison and Wessex CC member Tom Kawka.

 

[Peter Burgess]

The fundamental reason for tapes is to indicate where it is not OK to go, in order to preserve what we can of the cave.

It may be that there are many cavers who do not need to be assisted in this way, but equally, there are demonstrably many that do.

Tape is the simplest and easiest way to achieve this, by showing where it is not OK to go, and, in the UK at least, there is a widely accepted "rule" that one does not cross tapes.

The alternative might be to indicate simply where it is OK to go rather than where it is not OK, which is what show caves do by laying concrete paths and steps. This is, of course, far more intrusive and permanent a solution than anybody wants.

So, until an equally inexpensive, less visually intrusive, and largely effective solution comes along, I think tapes are here to stay.

Apart from Chris's "fools paradise" of trust or education, what alternative method does anyone have to achieve the same goal? Underfloor lighting to guide you to the nearest exit?

PS - I like the white tape, Chris. Much nicer. Will it stay white?

 

[cap n chris]

Muddy tape is an offence under Sharia Law, apparently. Obviously it'll be staying white.

 

[SamT]

Echoing above...

"If one is concerned with conserving a valuable resource, they will choose their path wisely, move slowly, watch where they put their hands, demonstrate care and respect and restraint."

if only that were the case. 

I've witnessed reasonably experienced cavers stumble about in very well decorated and delicate places without so much as a thought as to where they are putting their muddy hands and feet.

As said above, it only takes one numpty and a place can be destroyed.

Many such places discovered in the UK in the 60s 70's 80s etc are now decimated beyond recognition.

just a couple of previous topic ...
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=10005.0
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=17493.0
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php?topic=2527.0

I realise that conservation taping may not have helped in some of these cases, but something is better than nothing in my opinion.

A lot of the conservation taping we've placed in bagshawe cavern is purely to direct people though certain bits of cave whereby the most obvious route is the most damaging, and whilst a less obvious, and perhaps slightly more physically arduous route will keep folk off the more delicate bits worthy of conservation. And remember, this might not be 'stal', it might be fossil encrusted slabs of stone, virgin sediment deposits, various other bits of cave morphology that might not be noticed by your average caver, or considered worthy of conservation.  Its not all pearls and helectites you know.

I urge people to use the thin orange builders twine and use stainless pegs to keep it up off the floor.  This is, I feel, one of the least detracting, yet most obvious methods.  I think it has been well established that red/white barrier tape is god awful stuff, that not only looks bloody horrible, but also the red dye from the plastic leaches out and can stain formations red.

Ask yourself, would you rather suffer (or chose to mentally delete) a bit of conservation tape, or come back in 2 years time to find your pretty little grotto you've discovered completely trashed. 

 

[Leclused]

What does NOT work is trusting visitors to be conservation-minded. Certainly in the UK this is a fool's paradise. Perhaps elsewhere too. It only takes one person a single trip to destroy a cave.

Hi,

Take a look at the following presentation (perhaps you did it already) http://www.scavalon.be/downloads/Cave%20Protection%20English.pdf it gives a lot of information about why/how/when

At the end there are some examples of "vandalism " in caves done by people who don't respect caves. Taping will not solve this off course for that gating is required.  When we (Sc Avalon- Belgium) discover a new decorated cave (and we found already a few ones) we always start directly with taping. And if required we also place a gate or chain in the entrance to avoid visits by careless cavers. Gating caves however gives work to the explorers in the form of guiding other cavers around in the gated cave.

@Chris : Nice work in Shatter Cave, glad to see that you switched to white (fencing) tape.

Dagobert

 

[SamT]

I dont like white tape - too visually intrusive, the sooner it gets muddied, the better (unless its on a white background of course).

(most) cavers still know not to cross the tape, what ever the colour, so why not choose something less visually distracting.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I think I like it as it sort of "fits in" as it doesn't introduce an alien colour to the cave, but is visible enough to be noticed.