Caves of the Peak District

[barrabus]

Back on topic; I'm certain that having copies of John & Iain's new guide in shops in the Dales would be of interest to a significant number of cavers up here.

I intend to purchase it in one of the two caving emporiums in Ingleton.

 

[moorebooks]

Did you see this report on the BBC website:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/8382626.stm

and a link:
http://bookshop.blackwell.co.uk/jsp/editorial/browse/espresso.jsp
"Aspiring authors can also take advantage of the new EBM technology, uploading their work in person from a CD or flash drive, to see their written creations professionally printed, bound and trimmed into perfectly packaged library-quality paperback books indistinguishable from traditional published works. "

The other problem with Lulu it effectively destroys the retail market as it is print on demand, therefore the book never sees the light of day at all the usual outlets.

On a positive note I now have my stock of Caves of the Peak district - its shame title isn't a bit more embracing by saying caves and Mines of the Peak district as many of the latter are included in the book, there are a number of mine explorers who positively shy away from anything to do with Caving and thus restricts the market. It proves whats in a title can be very important.

I do know of a couple of decent Welsh Publishers if Clive Gardner can get in touch with me

Mike

 

[SamT]

there are a number of mine explorers who positively shy away from anything to do with Caving

How sad and narrow minded .... I wonder which web places they hang out at...I'm completely in the Dark.

 

[carabeener]

Back on topic; I'm certain that having copies of John & Iain's new guide in shops in the Dales would be of interest to a significant number of cavers up here.

I intend to purchase it in one of the two caving emporiums in Ingleton.

I'd like to aswell, though looks like they don't have any stock of the book at the moment! (hint hint!)

 

[Peter Burgess]

there are a number of mine explorers who positively shy away from anything to do with Caving

How sad and narrow minded .... I wonder which web places they hang out at...I'm completely in the Dark.

Allow me to enlighten you. Here are two of the more popular ones. Both very friendly and focussed on what interests them - including mines in Derbyshire.

www.aditnow.co.uk
www.mine-explorer.co.uk

Mike sells books. He knows what he's saying! It saddens me to see a few sport cavers treating mines as dispensable adventure playgrounds. If a good guide book can educate people from both ends of the spectrum what is important about these places, both caves and mines, then so much the better.

 

[moorebooks]

there are a number of mine explorers who positively shy away from anything to do with Caving

How sad and narrow minded .... I wonder which web places they hang out at...I'm completely in the Dark.

I'm referring to http://www.mine-explorer.co.uk/ and http://www.aditnow.co.uk/  and not those on the fringes. I  feel it is naive as there is clearly a crossover between the sports I have always supported Caving and Mining equally including during my stint as NAMHO chair. I felt there is room for a dedicated mining element at HE which never happens

Mike

 

[SamT]

I'm not sure if Peter missed my jibe or not.

I am well aware of those sites peter, jolly good they are too. I lurk there and I occasionally post there when I have something relevant to say/ask. However I don't spend all my time on those forums harping on about how caves are better than mines and how those forums are populated by a bunch of gung ho, homophobic Green laners. If that were the case - I'd expect them to get pissed off with me and ban me.

Sorry - that's an entirely separate (historical)  argument we are completely off topic now -

Caves of the Peak district is ACE (far more glossy and well presented than I exptected  )

There is a veritable kibble full of literature published on the mines of the peak every year by the likes of Riewerts, Ford and PDHMS. If the type of person that 'positively shy's away' from anything with the word cave in it then long may it still be called Caves of the Peak District.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I entirely understood your jibe although why a jibe was actually necessary I don't know.  :ras: I was using your jibe as a good excuse to promote the sites. And why not. 

 

[moorebooks]

There is a veritable kibble full of literature published on the mines of the peak every year by the likes of Riewerts, Ford and PDHMS. If the type of person that 'positively shy's away' from anything with the word cave in it then long may it still be called Caves of the Peak District.

The problem with the latest mining productions although well very done  they set out to educate rather provide practical information for Explorers ( Lead Mining in the Peak District is also long out print) and certainly don't provide the detail information about pitches and other underground obtstacles which CotPD does very well

Mike .

 

[droid]

, there are a number of mine explorers who positively shy away from anything to do with Caving

Rather amusingly they don't shy away from SRT gear, Mike. :

Any mine explorer with half a brain is going to know that CoPD is going to include a fair few mines. It has done for the last 3 editions, no reason for a change.

 

[Blakethwaite]

Rather amusingly they don't shy away from SRT gear, Mike. :

SRT is a means of going up and down holes. Are you suggesting they should carry step ladders?

To be fair, a lot of mine-explorers would be hesitant to touch caving style  A-to-Z type guidebooks. Finding the way to a specific area of a mine based on scraps of old plans, hunches and good luck seems to be the preferred option even if it takes a good number of trips. Walking straight there handbook in hand doesn't really have the same appeal.

 

[Pitlamp]

As Peter Burgess says - Mike most certainly does know what he's talking about.

The only problem with Mike's suggested alternative name is that COPD attempts to describe the caves exhaustively together with any mines of special interest to cavers. If it were to be called "Caves & Mines of the Peak District" it would then have to try to describe all the mines exhaustively as well - this would be a very different animal!

In an area such as the Peak District there will always be an overlap of interest between cavers and mine explorers but the overlap is probably not quite great enough to justify a radically altered approach to COPD. It'd also need a willing volunteer to co-ordinate such a volume (or, more correcly, probably a number of volumes!). Many cavers (who I'm led to believe enjoy something of a reputation for short arms and deep pockets) might not want to spend money on a book which has a high proportion of content which doesn't especially interest them.

I guess there's no perfect answer. I do know that my own interest in mining history was stimulated by caving in the Peak District and I certainly appreciate the inclusion of the various mines which are described in COPD.

As far as retail outlets for books is concerned I very much understand Mike's sentiments. Bookshops are wonderful places; books are wonderful things and good books specifically about one's own interests are beyond price.

Wouldn't it be great if someone with the knowledge and time took on the project of writing a "Mines of the Peak District" to be used in parallel with COPD? I'd certainly buy it.

 

[ttxela]

Wouldn't it be great if someone with the knowledge and time took on the project of writing a "Mines of the Peak District" to be used in parallel with COPD? I'd certainly buy it.

Too right it would  get it done 

 

[dunc]

Who's volunteering then? I'd buy one too, would be interesting!

 

[playoutside]

YIPEEEEE I got my copy today :read:

When is MoPD dew out???? I want one too

 

[Brains]

I want a MoPD please, money waiting, one combined volume with CoPD and an Index for preference...
Why are some mines which cant be accessed included like Bondog in, but others with access out, like Silver Eye as mentioned above, and why not Middleton for the "Armchair Caver" to drive round?
Got our new copy wet today  - will see how the paper and binding stands up

 

[droid]

Wouldn't it be great if someone with the knowledge and time took on the project of writing a "Mines of the Peak District" to be used in parallel with COPD? I'd certainly buy it.

I don't think it would be 'a' MoPD. 

But I too would buy one.
Go nicely with Jim Rieuwerts' mighty tome....

 

[paul]

The only problem with Mike's suggested alternative name is that COPD attempts to describe the caves exhaustively together with any mines of special interest to cavers. If it were to be called "Caves & Mines of the Peak District" it would then have to try to describe all the mines exhaustively as well - this would be a very different animal!

It wouldn't be a guide book of several volumes - more a Library!

I don't think anyone knows precisely how many mines (lead or otherwise) there are in the Peak District, much less enough detail to include much about all of them in a large set of guide books.

At a talk given in our village hall (Winster) last year or the year before by a mine historian there was a map showing locations of mineshafts in Derbyshire.

These were represented by three different kinds of circles. There were many of the first type representing shafts whose location is known and are capped because they are near Public Footpaths, etc.

There were a lot more representing shafts whose location was known but were largely not capped as they were not near any Public Footpaths.

Third, were the circles representing shafts which were known of from mine records but whose location was not precisely known. These were so numerous it looked like the map had spent years hanging up In a pub behind the dartboard! Of course there will also be a lot more whose details are lost.

Of course many caves in the Peak are also part mine and many mines are part cave and these are included in "Caves of the Peak District". If COPD were to include only natural caves, it would be a very slim volume indeed.

 

[JAM]

I still have 4 shelves that need filling with books, a MoPD library would fit in quite nicely!  8)
Who possesses the knowledge..

What I'd like to see more than anything else is a comprehensive index of all potential digs, available or occuppied. Now this WOULD need to be a wiki page...

just a thought..

Rich

 

[paul]

I still have 4 shelves that need filling with books, a MoPD library would fit in quite nicely!  8)
Who possesses the knowledge..

What I'd like to see more than anything else is a comprehensive index of all potential digs, available or occuppied. Now this WOULD need to be a wiki page...

just a thought..

Rich

Well volunteered!