Charity challenges

[bagpuss]

Saw an advert for a charity challenge where the challenge was to go to sump 1 Swildons. I guess it's essentially a led trip, so in theory no different to any other led trip into the cave. Not seen a cave used as part of a charity challenge before, wondered if its any different from someone going up a mountain on a challenge, I suppose it's likely they would have more access to training for a hill challenge than someone might for caving...

 

[alanw]

This challenge? Which says Please note, this challenge is for participants who are physically fit, and preferably experienced cavers.

 

[bagpuss]

Preferably is a bit open to interpretation!

 

[Wardy]

I have never been keen on these outdoor challenges for charity.

I am happy to give to charity.
I also think people should go into the outdoors for their own good

What I don't like is someone taking an unnecessary cut of the charity money and in order to do so needlessly encouraging people to go somewhere that they probably wouldn't go if they felt they could raise money easier elsewhere.
Add into this the damage many places get from the increased traffic................ Grrrrrrrrr.

I hadn't imagined the charity "profiteers" would start abusing caves as well.

Just saying

 

[ZombieCake]

This challenge? Which says Please note, this challenge is for participants who are physically fit, and preferably experienced cavers.

They must know something we all don't. The advert says:

Challenge yourself to explore Swildon’s Hole, the deepest cave on the Mendip Hills!​

 

[bagpuss]

I have never been keen on these outdoor challenges for charity.

I am happy to give to charity.
I also think people should go into the outdoors for their own good

What I don't like is someone taking an unnecessary cut of the charity money and in order to do so needlessly encouraging people to go somewhere that they probably wouldn't go if they felt they could raise money easier elsewhere.
Add into this the damage many places get from the increased traffic................ Grrrrrrrrr.

I hadn't imagined the charity "profiteers" would start abusing caves as well.

Just saying

I think this is partly why I felt a bit uneasy about it. Also feels like a pressure to follow through on something when it's for charity and the sump sort of feels like something you wouldn't want the pressure to go through. Large scale events on popular mountains cause a lot of wear and tear (more so than small scale instructed groups) with often nothing going back into conservation or rescue teams.

 

[domestos bend]

At first glance it looked like Wessex CC were charging people £50 to go to sump 1

 

[Flotsam]

NHS charity parachute jumps cost the NHS more in the treating injuries caused by the parachute jumps.

 

[JasonC]

NHS charity parachute jumps cost the NHS more in the treating injuries caused by the parachute jumps.

Is that a joke, an evidenced fact, or a Daily Mail headline?
Just wondering...

 

[paul]

Is that a joke, an evidenced fact, or a Daily Mail headline?
Just wondering...

See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10476298/#:~:text=Each pound raised for charity,significant burden on health resources.

Abstract
All parachute injuries from two local parachute centres over a 5-year period were analysed. Of 174 patients with injuries of varying severity, 94% were first-time charity-parachutists. The injury rate in charity-parachutists was 11% at an average cost of 3751 Pounds per casualty. Sixty-three percent of casualties who were charity-parachutists required hospital admission, representing a serious injury rate of 7%, at an average cost of 5781 Pounds per patient. The amount raised per person for charity was 30 Pounds. Each pound raised for charity cost the NHS 13.75 Pounds in return. Parachuting for charity costs more money than it raises, carries a high risk of serious personal injury and places a significant burden on health resources.

 

[cap n chris]

Ah, the usual hate squad rear up the moment anyone might be getting remunerated for their efforts in a cave setting. Predictable. One day it might be different. Live and let live and all that jazz. Sure.

 

[ttxela2]

See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10476298/#:~:text=Each pound raised for charity,significant burden on health resources.

I'd say something is a bit amiss there if the amount raised per person was only £30. The cost of the average 'experience' type parachute jump looks to be around £250-£300.

I would have thought the aim with any of these sort of things should be to raise at least more than the participation cost in donations?

 

[cap n chris]

At first glance it looked like Wessex CC were charging people £50 to go to sump 1

If they set up as a professional provider they'd be well placed to do theft, given the hut location and facilities. Would require some quals and relevant insurance etc.. probably.

 

[Samouse1]

Ah, the usual hate squad rear up the moment anyone might be getting remunerated for their efforts in a cave setting. Predictable. One day it might be different. Live and let live and all that jazz. Sure.

No one said that the instructors were bad in this post, more the mass charity aspect.

Huge charity events are popular on the Yorkshire three peaks, there was a day last year when something like 500 people did it in one day. It puts a huge burden on local infrastructure, and a very common callout for CRO is a three peaker on their last peak.

 

[cap n chris]

Use of the word "mass" is presumptive. Even were the event well subscribed it would very likely be at an instructor:caver ratio within the usual bounds or thereabouts. There's a limit of local instructors so it shouldn't be far different than a Freshers weekend in numbers down there. Weather is clearly an issue which makes planning this kind of thing difficult though. A bit like the old permit system in the twentieth century where you had to apply months in advance for a particular cave on a particular day.

 

[Flotsam]

Ah, the usual hate squad rear up the moment anyone might be getting remunerated for their efforts in a cave setting. Predictable. One day it might be different. Live and let live and all that jazz. Sure.

Nothing to do with hate

 

[mikem]

As pointed out here, parachute paper was from 1999, when they were using static line round chutes, not tandem jumps. £30 now is generally the booking fee and then you raise sponsorship on top. They definitely make more money from sponsored events than just donations:

Does parachuting to raise money for the NHS cost more than it raises? - FLYER Forums

forums.flyer.co.uk

 

[Speleofish]

There's another way of looking at the figures, even if they're accurate and relevant these days. Many of the parachutists would probably have jumped in any case, the 'charity' part being a convenient excuse to have an experience they had always wanted. I agree that raising an average of £30 is fairly pathetic but, rather than saying each pound raised for the NHS costs £13.71, you could say that overall charity parachutists contribute nearly 8% of their treatment.

I also question the 11% figure. My daughter did a tandem jump on a busy day at Salisbury. Over 200 jumpers, no injuries.

 

[cap n chris]

Nothing to do with hate

Why the thread then?

 

[cavetroll]

Why the thread then?

To… talk about it? Forums eh?! Madness.

Whilst I think it’s a bit silly, I’d rather people walked through the dales or visited sump 1 than trekking up Kilimanjaro whilst trying to convince me they’re doing it “for the children”. Can we agree we dislike those guys more? I would usually politely insist people clarify if their costs are included in the fundraising total or not..

I do try not to get too grumpy about people actually spending time in their (reasonably) local outdoor spaces if they’re enjoying it and aren’t doing any measurable harm 🤷.