Cap'n Chris said:
Er, I'd hazard a guess that conservation would go out of the window if CRoW access applied to caving. In fact I believe/think/know that it would be a certainty. For sure. Deffo.
I don?t agree. I think that some people are frightened to death of what might happen to ?conservationism? if it transpired that cavers had access. I do not see a flood of cavers enveloping the UK demanding entrance to every (CRoW) hole on the land, I do not see hordes of cavers running roughshod through the passages.
What I would like (expect?) to see, were CRoW to become a reality for cavers is a sensible discussion how we (as cavers) apply it. I still agree landowners wishes are very important (paramount if the land is non-CRoW) and I still agree we don?t want to aggravate or agitate such landowners. Additionally, I would expect various ?bodies? to put forwards the names of various caves that have conservation issues ? I would like (expect?) that to be discussed to, to find a mutually satisfactory way forward.
It also does not necessarily mean the end of a permit system as legitimate concerns have been raised about multiple groups all turning up at the same hole at the same time.
In short, I think that CRoW becoming a reality for cavers would cause us to sit down and take a look at the whole issue through
eveyones eyes.
bograt said:
.... I am of the opinion that the majority of damage is done by the ignorant, not malicious.
I completely agree.
I would go a little further too ... Whilst leading a group of novices and whilst explaining not to touch/damage various ?features?, I have (sorry to say) more than once, accidently been negligent (placed half a wellie on a gour formation on the floor, knocked a straw stal by accident whilst pointing at one explaining they are fragile and not to touch). How many of us can honestly say we have
never had a little accident ?
graham said:
..... This is why Chris and I are asking that these matters are properly thought through before pushing your wants forward.
I completely understand this and subscribe to it. However, I do see it as a different issue to whether cavers have the right to access a cave on CRoW land. Nevertheless, if cavers CAN access CRoW caves I will want to discuss exactly the issues you are raising now (not ignore them as I think is feared).
Ian