Covid travel restrictions and Police fines etc.

PeteHall

Moderator
In this case, the additional risk the climbers have put people at is associated with their chosen exercise activity (relative to their level of ability), not the fact that they drove half an hour to get there. It would have been the same situation if someone from Cheddar had done the same thing, but I doubt that it would have got half the attention.

Presumably this is why the government did not mention travel distance in the law, simply what you are allowed to leave for.

Regardless of the perceived rights or wrongs of what they did, the law is the law. If they broke it, they should expect a fine. If they didn't break it, they should not be fined. There really is no debate.

Obviously this may be a case of poor reporting, the climbers may have told the police they had travelled to Cheddar to see the sunset, which is not a permitted reason to leave home at the moment, regardless of the distance. In which case the fine would be legal, even if they lived in Cheddar.

I'm not saying I agree with this, simply that the police need to work within the law, just like everyone else.
 

mikem

Well-known member
It doesn't matter what their excuse, the fact that they drove past other climbing venues to get there means they were in the wrong (although it doesn't sound as though they were actually climbers, more likely tourists who got up one of the lower buttresses & then were unable to climb down).
 

Badlad

Administrator
Staff member
Covid, lockdown type threads have been discussed on here many times over the last year.  People are affected in many different ways.  Anything from losing a loved one, through some very dark feelings, to having very little impact at all.  What is abundantly clear is that people hold very different views on these issues.  That is reflected on here and throughout society.  I think it is healthy to hear those views and they have been reflected on here in a generally civil way.  Throughout the year the moderators have had to take very little action.

I realise AN is far stricter on what subjects can be discussed .  This thread for example is a warning about people being fined in Cheddar Gorge which is at the centre of a major caving region.  So relevant and the discussion then flows.  In any case although there is much talk about caving and related activities posting on ukcaving is not restricted to that.  There are music videos, jokes, silly pictures, competitions, idle chat etc.  Some of these are incredibly popular with Friday Joke having nearly a million and a half views and over seven thousand posts - that's a lot of jokes to look through if you get bored BTW.. 

Anyway, sinker, we are a very different forum I hope you'll give us more of a chance. Cheers
 

Alex

Well-known member
I never get why it's such a big deal to travel to do your exercise, is it the length of time out of home or something, or just trying to stop the virus moving around? Either way though the risk is the same, you either risk infecting people in your local area (nothing stopping you falling over and twisting an ankle in the local countryside and causing a resuce) or you are spreading it somewhere else? As we are told it's everywhere anyway, why does it matter where you go? I feel at far more risk locally now as so many other people are forced to stay local. I used to not see anyone out and about now I am diving into bushes avoiding every family out sledging on my allowed daily exercise. I would much rather go somewhere further away to avoid people, but for some reason I would get fined if I did that, where's the friggin logic.

I perfectly understand you should avoid doing anything risky in case of a call out, but why does it matter where you do it. Yes some beauty spots get overwhelmed because people are stupid sheep and all go the same places, the solution is to simply close parking in those places.

Surely if we are expected to lock down every winter, they have got to give us some reasonable freedom, otherwise we will all go insane. We are in it for the longhaul, the vaccines don't work against the South African varient and this is only the start, so I am struggling to see a positive future, lockdowns forever, if so we need a reasonable middle ground!? either that and do a proper shorter lockdown and wipe it out like they did in NZ, but the gov is not brave enough to do that, instead preferring to keep us in lockdowns/tier 3 for a year now rather than a month of proper lock-downs to wipe it out.

Lockdown would be easier if anyone actually believed this would be the last one, because I sure as hell don't with this bunch of clowns in charge, and they still have not closed the fecking borders!
 

mikem

Well-known member
The rules are aimed at people who can't think sensibly for themselves, the rest of us are caught in the fall out. Unfortunately the implementation has not been well thought out either, but the only thing they were hopeful of achieving was slowing the spread (hence not taking it to other areas - there are far fewer ICU beds in tourist areas than cities), as hospitals did get close to breaking point.
 

PeteHall

Moderator
mikem said:
there are far fewer ICU beds in tourist areas than cities
This argument can be used for people moving to second homes in the countryside, but it's not relevant to daily exercise in the countryside.

You don't leave home to go for a walk/ climbing/ caving in the morning and end up in an emergency covid ward by lunchtime.
 

Roger W

Well-known member
A lot of these rescue jobs don't just put the rescuers at the risk of sharing Covid.  Just a few days ago a member of the Patterdale Mountain Rescue team was seriously injured going to the aid of someone camping out on a mountain who was "suffering chest pains."

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/19071953.patterdale-mountain-rescue-team-member-suffers-life-changing-injuries-falling-150m/

As I'm sure most people on this forum will know full well, when you get yourself into a situation where you need rescuing, you may well be putting other people's lives at risk as well as your own.
 

Alex

Well-known member
I agree, but I don't understand why it matters where they travelled from. I could just as easily break a leg running round the countryside near me perfectly legally on the slippery ice and cause a rescue (though I would personally would probably try to crawl home rather than cause a rescue).

The camping one was very bad luck and from what I understand was a medical issue, the issue is choosing to do a risky camp in that weather in a remote place (not how far they travelled to get there, because I still can't see why that matters?). Travelling or not they are still some rescue team's problem.
 

mikem

Well-known member
& the more remote you have that problem, the more people will be involved.

The issue isn't with the individual needing an ICU bed, it's those they might interact with, e.g. they visit a local shop (for local people :LOL:)
 

maxb727

Member
[quote author=PeteHall
[/quote]

You don't leave home to go for a walk/ climbing/ caving in the morning and end up in an emergency covid ward by lunchtime.
[/quote]

ICU isn?t just for Covid patients - accidents have occurred in rescue teams. Cars drivers do have had accidents. All these things add pressure to the health service.

It?s so frustrating to see people arguing they should be allowed to do what they want. I?ve got a caving friend who?s been on a ventilator for weeks now. It has been touch and go many times. It?s still not certain what will happen.

If people could use their imagination to find other hobbies which satisfy their mental health then they might not get so het up about being told to stay home.

Families are losing loved ones, friends are loosing drinking buddies, the caves/mountains/countryside aren?t going anywhere and we WILL get back out there soon.
 

mikem

Well-known member
The problem is mainly the frustration about the way it's being managed by government & their lack of clarity / consistency.

& trying to counter the fact that the more people who are out there doing stuff, the more rescues will be required.
 

Alex

Well-known member
And more and more will, unfortunately as people like me begin to loose hope that this will ever end.

I have been good so far by the way, I still have the same tank I fuel I bought before Chrismass. I do hope my car will still work, when/if we are ever allowed out again or if I am called out on a big shout myself, I turn it on in the garage and occasionally go to the shops in it, but not going on long drives won't do it much good.

I like everyone is just frustrated by both the virus and the bunch of circus clowns that dare to call them selves a government, that idiots decided to put in charge to get this Brexit thing done to make people poorer for some reason and put our fishing industry out of business.
 

pwhole

Well-known member
It doesn't seem to have occurred to many people yet that cars are the problem. The police like cars because they are lazy, so they drive cars too. Don't drive a car to your exercise - no police problems. The police don't get the bus, as it's embarrassing to the cop mind - well, to most middle-aged men, frankly. And it doesn't go where they need to go. Away from popular routes they no longer hang around train stations like they used to, as most criminals use cars to do their thing. If you really need to travel, use public transport - there's no-one on it, and if it's a bus the driver will be so glad for a chat they probably won't let you even sit down. I've been doing whatever I want, safely, since last March, and have barely seen the police, and when I do, they don't see me. But I don't drive. Perhaps there's a clue there?

Also Dominic Cummings has nothing to do with the running of this country any longer, so can we please make that the last mention of him? He was largely irrelevant then, and he's totally irrelevant now. Blaming someone else for your own behaviour is rather odd, especially when you don't even know him.
 

mikem

Well-known member
All the sensible influencers get themselves jobs in big industry, it's better paid with less criticism - who'd want to go into politics nowadays?

The lockdown has done its job, just a matter of when they decide to relax restrictions, as one half of vocal population are baying for it to end & other side want to stay wrapped in cotton wool for ever....
 

royfellows

Well-known member
Ed W said:
Guys, some of you may have seen the news of the rescue in Cheddar Gorge (https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/police-update-cheddar-gorge-rescue-4979937).  Note that whatever your views on the details of the lockdown law that those rescued were handed ?200 fines from the police, they had apparently travelled about 30 miles from South Gloucestershire to the Gorge.  There are reports of others having been fined visiting the Cheddar Gorge and at Goblin Combe.  This post is not to debate the rights and wrongs of this, these can be taken up with the Police and the courts, but to point out that anyone travelling to Mendip to go caving is now very likely to be facing legal action if they have travelled any distance.

I am quoting the OP who unless I have missed something, has not re-posted

"This post is not to debate etc" ....... it was basically a heads up
 

mikem

Well-known member
Nobody's debating the fact that police are fining people, they are venting their frustration - this is a forum, not a noticeboard.
 

mikem

Well-known member
Just as you don't decide the eventual direction of a pub discussion when you start it. If just two people are involved then you have some control, but less & less as the table gets bigger. You can, however, turn away from this much more easily.
 

al

Member
mikem said:
... who'd want to go into politics nowadays?

Well ... it's not a bad salary, plenty of perks (cheap booze & food, employ the missus for extra cash, stacks of expenses), you don't have to turn up much, you can lie through your teeth and your colleagues aren't even allowed to mention it (even if they notice), doesn't really matter if you cock things up, and people queue up to bribe you.

Plus - you only get a review every five years and, even then, the system's rigged in the favour of the two main parties so, as long as you get a job with one of the two, it's very unlikely anything will happen - in fact there's plenty of examples of prize chumps getting elected time after time, no matter how poor they are at their job.

So what's not to like?
 
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